Linked by Eugenia Loli on Wed 25th Oct 2006 08:41 UTC
Linux A few months ago we ran a poll about the most important non-free Linux apps. We had over 8,000 votes in that poll and we consider the results pretty interesting. Interesting enough to push Linux's market share if a distro capitalized on them?
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RE[3]: SabayonLinux?
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 25th Oct 2006 09:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: SabayonLinux?"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Oliver, normal people don't give a rat's ass about open source, community, and giving. In case you haven't noticed yet, people are egocentric, and only care about themselves and their loved ones. This may sound harsh, but it's the truth.

In other words, you won't be able to make people use open source software just because it's open source. The argument doesn't work, because people simply don't care. Don't the existence and popularity of the Ubuntuguide, EasyUbuntu, and Automatix prove this to you?

Open source advocates need to learn to accept that they cannot force everyone into thinking like them. Choice is about more than just the open source way. Non-free is a choice too, you know, and by religiously forcing people to settle for less-than-optimal solutions (.ogg maybe as good as or better than .mp3, but since few hardware players support and most of people's music in in .mp3 anyway, it is not the best solution for normal folk), you are actually removing their choice.

What I care about, is that people have the best computing solution that works best for them. I am a Linux user, and I'd love to see more people use it. However, I simply know that because of things like what Eugenia is talking about in this editorial, it is not the optimal solution for most of my friends, hence I refuse to advocate it to them.

Think about that. What is more important, open source, or wanting the best and easiest computing experience for your friends?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: SabayonLinux?
by anda_skoa on Wed 25th Oct 2006 11:13 in reply to "RE[3]: SabayonLinux?"
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

Open source advocates need to learn to accept that they cannot force everyone into thinking like them. Choice is about more than just the open source way. Non-free is a choice too, you know, and by religiously forcing people to settle for less-than-optimal solutions

All valid, but why would it then be ok to force open source advocates to include non-free in their distributions, when there are already other distributions offering the free plus non-free way?

Choice can be applied at multiple levels. One can choose between hardware manufacturers, type of computer (desktop, laptop, ...), operating system, operating system vendor (when applicable as with Linux), different layers of the software stack and so on.

Some choices might limit the option for other choices and might as a consequence not lead to an overall satisfiable combination for a given requirement.

For example if the primary choice is to buy a Dell, your operating system options get OS X removed.

If the primary choice is to play MP3, free-only distributions are removed from the operating system vendor choice, the operating system Linux stays available through vendors going with a mixed approach.

Now it would be nice for the first example to have OS X available on all OEM platforms and MP3 enabled in all software stacks, but that will always be up to the respective vendor.

As long as there are other options at the respective level, the primary choice can still be satisfied.
If there are no more options left, there might be a need for a compromise somewhere

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: SabayonLinux?
by Anonymous Penguin on Wed 25th Oct 2006 12:22 in reply to "RE[3]: SabayonLinux?"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

"Think about that. What is more important, open source, or wanting the best and easiest computing experience for your friends?"

That is very true, and it is my way of thinking as well.
However there are situations when Linux is better than Windows. For instance there must be at least one distro that is better than Windows 98.
And if it is true that most people don't care about OSS values, it is also true that they care about free as in free beer.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: SabayonLinux?
by lord_rob on Wed 25th Oct 2006 15:51 in reply to "RE[4]: SabayonLinux?"
lord_rob Member since:
2005-08-06

it is also true that they care about free as in free beer.

Right, but Windows is also "free" when you buy a new computer, or when you get it via bittorrent. So this is not a strong argument either, I think.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: SabayonLinux?
by Anonymous Penguin on Wed 25th Oct 2006 16:24 in reply to "RE[4]: SabayonLinux?"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

"Right, but Windows is also "free" when you buy a new computer, or when you get it via bittorrent. So this is not a strong argument either, I think."

Well, let's put it this way: if you build your own box (as I do) or if you want to upgrade an old box from 98/ME *and* stay legal, there is no way that Windows is free.
On the other hand, if you buy a PC with Windows preinstalled, it isn't free either: Dell, HP, Sony...will add the price of Windows, even if they pay peanuts for an OEM license.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: SabayonLinux?
by flange on Wed 25th Oct 2006 17:15 in reply to "RE[3]: SabayonLinux?"
flange Member since:
2006-10-06

"What is more important, open source, or wanting the best and easiest computing experience for your friends?"


Open source. If open source is not important to someone else, that person is free to continue using Windows, OSX, or whatever else he or she wants.

I want open standards, and open source is an important part of making that happen. I want *real* choice. That choice being that I can use whatever browser, word processor, music player, etc., that I want to use, and everyone else can happily use whatever they want to use.

If that makes me a zealot, fine. I can live with that title.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: SabayonLinux?
by dsmogor on Wed 25th Oct 2006 21:48 in reply to "RE[4]: SabayonLinux?"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

The most important matter here is whether Linux is a valid carrier for pursuing open standards and breaking lock in opportunities.
The real question is whether community is ready to sacrifice some purity for sake of boosting its market share and thus enchancing its strength as the carrier or protecting it as the ultimate expression of its ideals.
In other words whether linux needs more users or more followers.
I presonally think that counting on linux as the major way of bringing open standards to the masses is an utopian goal. It would be much more effective to embrace Windows market share by providing extensions to it that would seamlessly enable open standards/formats.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: SabayonLinux?
by D3M0N on Thu 26th Oct 2006 01:28 in reply to "RE[4]: SabayonLinux?"
D3M0N Member since:
2005-07-09

I can choose whatever web browser/word processor/music player that I want to in Windows and OS X as well.

By the way, this is probably the first time I've agreed 110% with one of your opinions, Thom. Well said.

Reply Parent Score: 1