Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 26th Oct 2006 21:05 UTC, submitted by wuda
Java Demonstrating a perhaps more aggressive path than anticipated, Sun Microsystems is set to announce the open-sourcing of the core Java platform within 30 to 60 days, Sun President and CEO Jonathan Schwartz said at the Oracle OpenWorld conference on Wednesday morning.
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Archangel
Member since:
2005-07-23

Java has *massive* open source traction...it has surpassed C++ on sourceforge as the post popular language!!
But it remains relatively rare on Linux - AFAIK most distros don't bundle it at present (correct me if I'm wrong on that one). I wouldn't consider Sourceforge project numbers a good measure of "open source traction", but it depends what you're trying to measure with that term.

Pitifully unstable? Are you mad? Java is the engine of some of the largest, most active web applications in the world!
It depends heavily on the VM it's running in, and they aren't all created equal. Maybe the previous poster was aiming at something a little more obscure than, say, the x86 VM which is obviously pretty solid by now.

I think it's a good move by Sun, and long past time - I'm not sure what they gained by keeping it closed.
Playing nice with open source definately strikes me as a good idea - .NET is a big threat to Java. Maybe the enemy of Sun's enemy is their friend.

Reply Parent Score: 4

drdoug Member since:
2006-04-30

But it remains relatively rare on Linux - AFAIK most distros don't bundle it at present (correct me if I'm wrong on that one).

It would be nice if some distro's could get of their GPL high-horse and distribute Java. Without it Linux is a poor Java development platform. Distributing gcj as a java substitute just adds to the confusion.

Hopefully this will change when Sun fully release it. Though personally I hope they release it under CDDL ;)

Reply Parent Score: 4

someone Member since:
2006-01-12

But it remains relatively rare on Linux - AFAIK most distros don't bundle it at present (correct me if I'm wrong on that one).

It would be nice if some distro's could get of their GPL high-horse and distribute Java. Without it Linux is a poor Java development platform. Distributing gcj as a java substitute just adds to the confusion.

Hopefully this will change when Sun fully release it. Though personally I hope they release it under CDDL ;)


While open sourcing Java would make distros' lives even easier. Sun already devised a simplified license for Java distribution (DCJ). This allows you to install Java 5 under Ubuntu in the following way:

https://jdk-distros.dev.java.net/ubuntu.html

Reply Parent Score: 3

zambizzi Member since:
2006-04-23

Java has a very, very large open source community around it and Sun is encouraging that heavily with nearly *all* of their (previously) closed software.

Don't believe me? Fine, don't go to sourceforge, go to java-source.net Or, try Java.net...or just look around generally - if you need something Java and you'd prefer it open and free...you're sure to find just what you need. Let's not forget, to top all of that off, your tools and entire development stack can easily (and with great quality) come to you at no charge at all. Eclipse, Netbeans, JBoss, Glassfish, Hibernate, Tomcat, Resin, and the list goes on.

I don't think you can blame it on the VM implementation and not place most of the blame on the guy who installs the wrong VM, configures it incorrectly, and generally doesn't have a clue what he's doing...perhaps he had all of the problems above...either way that was a broadly ignorant statement. It's like someone saying "C++ is pitifully unstable...my apps keep crashing!" I'm not a C++ programmer, by the way. I realize C++ is a lower-level technology and doesn't run on a VM but I think you can see where I'm going w/ that.

Anyhow, I have to wholly agree with you...I can't wait until the entire stack is opened. I'm already developing against Glassfish and the new versions of Netbeans are incredible...advancing rapidly!

I've developed on both the .NET side (for years, regularly) and the last couple of years, Java. I can honestly say that .NET is not a threat to Java...not from where I'm standing. Java has the backing of the biggest tech (and other) corporations around, .NET is backed by...well...Microsoft.

We could debate that ad nauseum but there's no point, it's off the topic.

Reply Parent Score: 5

bnolsen Member since:
2006-01-06

Different worlds we come from. And yes, this particular case is just a single case.

The problem with the server was the code was utter crap. GIS application, it was using memory to do image processing on pieces that sometimes exceeded physical memory. Lots and lots of 100's of megabyte allocations and deallocations per second isn't exactly something java excels at.

The server consistently crashes on:
Sun Hardware - solars 8 & 9, Sun's VM
x86 Hardware - sun official, blackdown, ibm, some other one
amd64 Hardware - sun official

Some of the VM's above lasted longer than others (10's of hours compared with few hours).

Again, this is a single example. On the server side.

A big reason why associates of mine in the unix world who run EXCLUSIVELY linux/bsd on their desktop don't like java much is because of the resources required to run the applications, not to mention how desktop applications are still generally very picky about which version of the VM they run on.

There's more excitement about newer server frameworks using ruby, python, lua. On the high performance side more than a few people are looking forward to getting their hands on 'D' as a production language.

The JVM getting released is interesting , but I still believe it's several years too late. The technology in the VM is likely going to be more interesting than JAVA itself.

Edited 2006-10-27 16:27

Reply Parent Score: 0

someone Member since:
2006-01-12

The problem with the server was the code was utter crap

Well, you admitted it.

A big reason why associates of mine in the unix world who run EXCLUSIVELY linux/bsd on their desktop don't like java much is because of the resources required to run the applications

Java is most suitable for large applications where you need its features to manage the complexity of the code and where the runtime overhead will be insignificant.

In a word, it's not suitable for "Hello World" applications.

not to mention how desktop applications are still generally very picky about which version of the VM they run on.

Are you talking about between maintenance releases (5.0_05 and 5.0_06) or between major versions (1.4.2 and 5.0)?

Reply Parent Score: 1