Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 6th Nov 2006 18:26 UTC
Novell and Ximian "Someone just asked me whether, now that Novell's become buddies with Microsoft, I'll be turning away from Novell/SUSE as one of my favorite Linux distributions. My answer is no. I'm sticking with SUSE Linux on both my desktops and servers. Here's why."
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RE: Er.... Content?
by WarpKat on Mon 6th Nov 2006 19:03 UTC in reply to "Er.... Content?"
WarpKat
Member since:
2006-02-06

"with the exception of Yast, I've got all that on my desktop too, leaving out Yast you've pretty much hit EVERY major Distro out there... that is not a reason, that is convenience. "

And that's exactly what a customer would want - CONVENIENCE. I, for one, don't have much time during the day to compile source, choose-download-install packages on my own. This can be likened to Microsoft's update manager - whatever it's called - which downloads the updates but doesn't install them. This is a very big (in)convenience because MS has botched updates before to the point of breaking. I've yet to see one of my Linux updates go down in flames - it's a convenience. A very GOOD one.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Er.... Content?
by Lunitik on Mon 6th Nov 2006 19:09 in reply to "RE: Er.... Content?"
Lunitik Member since:
2005-08-07

"I've yet to see one of my Linux updates go down in flames"

Way too broad a comment... I'd like to remind you of the Ubuntu LTS X updates a while back...

Which is exactly why people go to companies like Novell for Linux support, they have more on the line, and can be trusted more.

Similarly Red Hat of course, however they certainly don't have the support infrastructure that Novell has.

Business customers want promises and guarentees, and they want someone to blame.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Er.... Content?
by narcissus on Mon 6th Nov 2006 19:55 in reply to "RE[2]: Er.... Content?"
narcissus Member since:
2005-07-06

""I've yet to see one of my Linux updates go down in flames"

Way too broad a comment... I'd like to remind you of the Ubuntu LTS X updates a while back...

Which is exactly why people go to companies like Novell for Linux support, they have more on the line, and can be trusted more.

Similarly Red Hat of course, however they certainly don't have the support infrastructure that Novell has.

Business customers want promises and guarentees, and they want someone to blame."

I think the original poster meant "I have yet to see one of my YAST updates go down in flames..."

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Er.... Content?
by bryanv on Mon 6th Nov 2006 20:36 in reply to "RE[2]: Er.... Content?"
bryanv Member since:
2005-08-26

You're an idiot.

It's not that they can be trusted more. Companies make mistakes all the time, often with very dire consequences.

The difference is that companies can offer support, or liability in some cases, which is nothing more than another place to point the finger when something does happen.

People don't buy support contracts because they 'have to', they do it because 'they can'. Contracts of that nature are nearly _always_ CYA political moves. A calculated risk. You'll spend X amount of budget to have someone that you can point the figure at when system Y tanks. Is your job worth X in budget? If yes, pay support contract for Y. If not, then sod all and hope Y never has a problem.

Anyone who thinks people are paying OSS vendor support contracts because of a 'level of service' or "updates" of higher quality than you can get from the last stable build of any major distro is deluding themselves.

You pay not for peace of mind in quality of code. You pay for peace of mind in knowing you've got someone else to blame.

Duh.

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[2]: Er.... Content?
by twenex on Mon 6th Nov 2006 19:20 in reply to "RE: Er.... Content?"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

And that's exactly what a customer would want - CONVENIENCE.

What was it Ben Franklin said? "Those who sacrifice a little freedom in return for security deserve neither", or words to that effect. I'm not an Amnerican, so I don't have the words off pat, and I'm not going to look it up. You also have to look at whether your vendors interests are in conflict with yours. As a Linux user, Novell's may be. Not a dead cert, but they MAY be.

I, for one, don't have much time during the day to compile source, choose-download-install packages on my own.

Nor do most users; but in fact it's quite easy to set up a cron job to do this kind of thing automatically - and keeping track of what's installed is a lot easier on Gentoo (which I assume you're alluding to) than it is on, say, FreeBSD. Not only that, but once you've used a package cd to install pre-compiled packages, you can then sit and use THOSE whilst your upgrades are compiling.

I view the whole Gentoo stage 1 thing, which again I assume you're alluding to, as a "learn-how-Linux-works" thing, which can be useful if you get into trouble (with any distro). It's the same with, say, books: Most of us read them, but in order to become good at writing them, you need practice, whether you want to do it as a hobby or professionally. And if you don't set aside enough time to practice, then you won't improve any.

As a final point, it's not as if installing SUSE with everything preloaded and Gentoo's stage 1 are the only choices - there's everything in-between, too. Mandriva, for example, has a lot of preinstalled software.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Er.... Content?
by Adam S on Mon 6th Nov 2006 20:42 in reply to "RE[2]: Er.... Content?"
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

>> I, for one, don't have much time during the day
>> to compile source, choose-download-install packages
>> on my own.

> Nor do most users; but in fact it's quite easy to
> set up a cron job to do this kind of thing
> automatically

Um... easy for whom?? Who exactly can setup a cron job to download sources and compile applications? I'd venture to say that the vast majority of people IN THIS FIELD don't know how to do that.

If that's not a techie talking to a techie crowd, I don't know what is!

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Er.... Content?
by ACarlow on Tue 7th Nov 2006 00:06 in reply to "RE[2]: Er.... Content?"
ACarlow Member since:
2005-10-18

"...and keeping track of what's installed is a lot easier on Gentoo (which I sume you're alluding to) than it is on, say, FreeBSD. Not only that, but once you've used a package cd to install pre-compiled packages, you can then sit and use THOSE whilst your upgrades are compiling."

Please explain how it is "a lot easier" to see what's installed on Gentoo than typing "pkg_info". Also, every version of FreeBSD for at least the last 5 years has had pre-compiled packages as well....

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Er.... Content?
by Clinton on Tue 7th Nov 2006 08:27 in reply to "RE: Er.... Content?"
Clinton Member since:
2005-07-05

Maybe things have changed during the last year, but I wouldn't call YaST a convenience.

It has the promise of convenience to it; certainly. I mean it is shiny and has an asthetic, calming, "grandmother bringing you a cup of tea and a biscuit" quality to it, but once you dig in, it always leaves you wishing it were different. At least it does me.

It seems to do too much and not enough all at the same time.

Reply Parent Score: 1