Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 9th Nov 2006 23:18 UTC
Mono Project Novell has announced the release of Mono version 1.2, a new version of the Mono project to create an implementation of the Microsoft .Net Framework for open source. Mono 1.2 enhances the open-source effort and is a major step toward compatibility with the .Net Framework 2.0, Novell officials said. Novell announced the new version on Nov. 9 at the Microsoft TechEd Developers conference in Barcelona.
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Not entirely accurate !
by alex_ndc on Fri 10th Nov 2006 01:18 UTC in reply to "One important point in Mono"
alex_ndc
Member since:
2006-11-10

Mono is a good development tool.

Even if it competes directly with Java, Mono is very useful for porting ASP.NET and Windows applications.
Of course, you don't have the WORA promise that Java has, but then again, SUN always wanted to maintain Java's purity, and while that's very good for portable applications, almost all Java desktop applications are crap ... because of Swing and all compromises made for portability reasons, like the java.io package that's also crap.

And although there are GTK bindings for Java and soon we'll also have quality QT bindings provided by Trolltech, Java programmers are so indoctrinated with the WORA promise that it really doesn't matter.
Not to mention that JNI is really hard to program against as compared to P/Invoke.

Also, many companies haven't switched to ASP.NET 2.0, and ASP.NET 1.0 is a fine framework for a web application.

If you have to choose between Java and C#, there's also the question of taste.
C# has features that are not in Java, and vice-versa, and some people prefer Java, and others prefer C#.

People do not understand that the goal of Mono is not to be 100% compatible with .NET.
The goal of Mono, as Miguel de Icaza said numerous times, is to provide a good Linux platform for applications.

If Java will go open-source, great ... but it would be kind of dumb for all programmers to have only 1 choice when it comes to a high-performance virtual machine that runs on top of Linux.

And I don't know where you have those benchmarks from, but Mono moves quite well compared to Python, Ruby, PHP, and the possibilities for optimizations are endless ... and even if Java will always be faster, Mono already has advantages right now, like lower memory consumption.

Edited 2006-11-10 01:22

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Not entirely accurate !
by backdoc on Fri 10th Nov 2006 03:26 in reply to "Not entirely accurate !"
backdoc Member since:
2006-01-14

All of the new Microsoft products are going to require the 2.0 Framework. So, unless a company has no upgrade plans, they will be installing it. However, having said that, you can install more than one Framework version at the same time.

But, I agree with you that choice is good.

Edited 2006-11-10 03:32

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Not entirely accurate !
by someone on Fri 10th Nov 2006 03:27 in reply to "Not entirely accurate !"
someone Member since:
2006-01-12

like the java.io package that's also crap.
Have you had a look at the java.nio package?

And although there are GTK bindings for Java and soon we'll also have quality QT bindings provided by Trolltech, Java programmers are so indoctrinated with the WORA promise that it really doesn't matter.
Java Gnome was not popular because of licensing problems with Sun's JRE (which means installing the JRE on any linux distro used to be a hassle)and immaturity of Classpath.

almost all Java desktop applications are crap ... because of Swing and all compromises made for portability reasons
Personally, I think it has more to do with Sun's lack of focus on the desktop and it's easy to see: Just compare the nativeness of Swing's Windows theme versus Qt's theme (both are emulating the native theme).
They only started to seriously focus on making Java a viable desktop application platform in Java 5. However, Java 6 will bring many improvements to Java SE, including better JIT, desktop integration, more-native looking LnF, instant splash screen among other things.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Not entirely accurate !
by dsmogor on Fri 10th Nov 2006 10:14 in reply to "RE: Not entirely accurate !"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

As I remember I tried to use Java gnome bindings for some simple app but I was quickly overthrown by stream of bugs and coredumps that shouldn't even happen in managed env.

I gues it still haven't achieved the criticall mass of developers and users to be seriousely usefull.

gtk# is in that matter much more solution right now.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Not entirely accurate !
by segedunum on Fri 10th Nov 2006 14:18 in reply to "Not entirely accurate !"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

People do not understand that the goal of Mono is not to be 100% compatible with .NET.
The goal of Mono, as Miguel de Icaza said numerous times, is to provide a good Linux platform for applications.


No it isn't. If that was the goal then they would have looked at .Net, looked at what they could have learned from it, then looked at Java and up and coming languages like Ruby to create a new platform that took all that into account.

They didn't do that because they thought .Net was the greatest thing since sliced bread, they wanted to clone the .Net framework and create a situation where .Net applications could be copied and run under Mono.

Certainly for Novell, 100% .Net compatiblity is the only selling point of Mono, and therein they will always be stuck trying to achieve that non-achievable goal.

Edited 2006-11-10 14:21

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Not entirely accurate !
by sbergman27 on Fri 10th Nov 2006 20:19 in reply to "RE: Not entirely accurate !"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

"""They didn't do that because they thought .Net was the greatest thing since sliced bread, they wanted to clone the .Net framework and create a situation where .Net applications could be copied and run under Mono.

Certainly for Novell, 100% .Net compatiblity is the only selling point of Mono, and therein they will always be stuck trying to achieve that non-achievable goal."""


... at the expense of anyone who stands in their way.

To be fair, though, I think Miguel *does* think that .Net is the best thing since sliced bread.

And maybe it is good. But that does not mean that it is the best for OSS software.

I view Mono much as I view Samba. I'm exceedingly glad that we have it (somewhat less exceedingly in the Mono case), but wish we didn't need it, and hope that we don't depend upon it any more than absolutely necessary.

Edited 2006-11-10 20:23

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Not entirely accurate !
by ebasconp on Fri 10th Nov 2006 20:31 in reply to "Not entirely accurate !"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

The new J2SE 6 (that's is in RC since today), solves the issues you mention (compromises for portability on Swing or on in java.io)

Reply Parent Score: 1