Linked by Adam S on Tue 16th Aug 2005 16:02 UTC, submitted by anyweb
Fedora Core This light hearted review is a look at how a girl who uses Windows (and is non-technical) deals with using Fedora Linux instead. In fact, she likes it so much, she uses it all the time now. If she can use Fedora Linux, anyone can.
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Problems with Linux
by on Tue 16th Aug 2005 17:22 UTC

Member since:

I am tired of these type of articles. The gist was that even this "woman", who is nontechnical, can install Linux, therefore anyone can. This article, however, fails to see reason to why someone might not want too. The big reason among them is multimedia and games.

I do actually have to like Linux, but fail to see it as an end all solution. I have a number of installs, even on my current network, but I still use Windows on my home box for a number of reasons. Here are a couple of them. If you have any suggestions on how to solve them be my guest...

#1 I use iTunes, I actually like it. I use iTunes with Audible Audio to get stories and articles that I listen to on my daily commute. Is there currently a Gnome and KDE application that allows me to interface with iTunes Music Store and upload content onto my iPod?

#2 I do a lot of photo and video editing. Are there currently any applications that have the power of Photoshop or Premiere?

#3 I happen to like online PC Gaming, I know that I could get an Xbox/PS2, but that is not the same as having a highend video card on a 21" LCD display. I currently play HalfLife II, Splinter Cell series, NBA Basketball, NHL Hockey, and MVP baseball. Do any of these games currently work under linux besides Halflife?

#4 Further, is the driver quality of hardware products. Has anyone ever seriously used ATI drivers for gaming or media? When will Visioneer scanners be supported (pick other hardware)?

#5 Visual Studio 2005. When is their going to be a visual IDE that has the quality and the "libraries" available on Linux to make porting easy? Most do not want to write code in Vi or Emacs.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Problems with Linux
by on Tue 16th Aug 2005 17:33 in reply to "Problems with Linux"
Member since:

#2 I do a lot of photo and video editing. Are there currently any applications that have the power of Photoshop or Premiere?

1 of the 2. Gimp is quite nice and is used even in professional workshops. I personally found it easier than photoshop.

#3 I happen to like online PC Gaming, I know that I could get an Xbox/PS2, but that is not the same as having a highend video card on a 21" LCD display. I currently play HalfLife II, Splinter Cell series, NBA Basketball, NHL Hockey, and MVP baseball. Do any of these games currently work under linux besides Halflife?

Have you ever looked into wine/winex?

#5 Visual Studio 2005. When is their going to be a visual IDE that has the quality and the "libraries" available on Linux to make porting easy? Most do not want to write code in Vi or Emacs.

KDevelop is what I use everyday for C++ and Java.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Problems with Linux
by ma_d on Tue 16th Aug 2005 17:46 in reply to "RE: Problems with Linux"
ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29

There's some decent video software on linux, but it's not well supported. To be honest, if you do actual video editing, I'd stick with Windows or Mac.
If you rip videos, come on over. And please, don't call ripping editing ;) .

Reply Parent Score: 1

GIMP is no Photoshop.
by kadymae on Tue 16th Aug 2005 20:17 in reply to "RE: Problems with Linux"
kadymae Member since:
2005-08-02

1 of the 2. Gimp is quite nice and is used even in professional workshops. I personally found it easier than photoshop.

As someone who knows more about getting things printer ready than the average schmeddly, unless something has changed in the last 6 months, GIMP is incredibly *crippled* next to P-shop.

Sure, if you're doing something where the art is going to be digital to digital to digital, GIMP is fine. It's fine if you want to retouch and edit photos. It's also okay if you don't care about/need color accuracy on a print.


But if you're designing something to be printed, the fact that GIMP colors RGB and does not support proper CMYK conversion and the Pantone color system is a deal breaker.

I cannot name a single top-flight professional artist I know who uses GIMP on color work they plan to make production ready.

In fact, the only professional illustrator I know who uses it creates his files with GIMP and then sneakernets the files to a friend with PShop for CMYK conversion when he's ready to send a book to press.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Problems with Linux
by rx182 on Tue 16th Aug 2005 22:17 in reply to "RE: Problems with Linux"
rx182 Member since:
2005-07-08


#5 Visual Studio 2005. When is their going to be a visual IDE that has the quality and the "libraries" available on Linux to make porting easy? Most do not want to write code in Vi or Emacs.

KDevelop is what I use everyday for C++ and Java.


Damn how can you people compare KDevelop with Visual Studio 2005? It's like comparing your little cat with a tiger. Visual Studio 2005 is the most powerful IDE of all time. It started to be better than everything else I tried before at Beta1... Can't wait to get the final one eh.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Problems with Linux
by thabrain on Tue 16th Aug 2005 17:37 in reply to "Problems with Linux"
thabrain Member since:
2005-06-29

#1 I use iTunes, I actually like it. I use iTunes with Audible Audio to get stories and articles that I listen to on my daily commute. Is there currently a Gnome and KDE application that allows me to interface with iTunes Music Store and upload content onto my iPod?

GTKPod
kioslave-ipod

#2 I do a lot of photo and video editing. Are there currently any applications that have the power of Photoshop or Premiere?

The GIMP (Graphic Image Manipulation Program)

#3 I happen to like online PC Gaming, I know that I could get an Xbox/PS2, but that is not the same as having a highend video card on a 21" LCD display. I currently play HalfLife II, Splinter Cell series, NBA Basketball, NHL Hockey, and MVP baseball. Do any of these games currently work under linux besides Halflife?

Cedega (Transgaming) runs many Windows games, possibly some of these. Level the finger at the game manufacturers instead of the OS for this one. They have to make the game for the platform, not the platform having to accomodate for the game.

#4 Further, is the driver quality of hardware products. Has anyone ever seriously used ATI drivers for gaming or media? When will Visioneer scanners be supported (pick other hardware)?

Once again, point the finger at the hardware mfg's...they are the ones that need to produce drivers. The community has done outstanding work with a lot of the devices currently out there, but it's extremely hard to do development for drivers when you don't have the specs to do it with. ATI won't supply those, so development by third parties is a bit more complicated.

#5 Visual Studio 2005. When is their going to be a visual IDE that has the quality and the "libraries" available on Linux to make porting easy? Most do not want to write code in Vi or Emacs.

Eclipse
KDevelop
Mono

Just to name a few ;)

The hardest point in a revolution is to convince the tried and true that their system isn't working. You sound like a tried and true Windows user; I can understand that, but Linux isn't Windows. The method, the means, the opportunity are all different.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Problems with Linux
by Tom K on Tue 16th Aug 2005 17:43 in reply to "RE: Problems with Linux"
Tom K Member since:
2005-07-06

1. GTKPod does not integrate with the iTunes Music Store. Please read the parent's questions in full before answering.

2. The GIMP is not a replacement for Photoshop, nor does it do video editing. Again, read the questions in full.

3. Game makers would release games for Linux if only every distro wasn't incompatible with every other distro, and if the kernel devs would actually maintain a stable driver/kernel API for at least a year.

4. Once again, see above. New kernel == new driver. Why is it that I can install a FreeBSD 4.1 driver in FreeBSD 4.12? The same applies to Windows. Many Windows 2000 drivers work in Windows XP. 95 --> 98 -- ME also.

5. I don't do much development, but I know that MSVS has many cool and advanced features that Linux dev environments have yet to match. There's something I heard about stopping a running program, modifying code, then resuming execution.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Problems with Linux
by Gryzor on Wed 17th Aug 2005 02:27 in reply to "RE: Problems with Linux"
Gryzor Member since:
2005-07-03

1) The Gimp is NOT photoshop nor it comes close. It is very good, but for serious profesional digital image, photoshop is the ONLY way to go. The gimp crashes from time to time.
2) Games: Please, Cedega can run "some" of these games. If DirectX is better than the current OpenGL version, what can you do; the only reason why DX is better is that the framework itself is much more complete. OpenGL is only graphics. With DX you have a full solution. (Sound, Network, 2D, 3D, etc.)

3) They would produce drivers, if they didn't have incompatibilities with each Linux distribution, revision, version.
4) Mono is not an IDE. MonoDevelop is not even 1/4 of visual Studio 2003 and not even 1/8 of VS 2005. Eclipse and KDevelop cannot code in C# and are (IMO) far worse from VS in many aspects (I haven't used Eclipse more than a few hours on a simple Java prj. tho, but I have used KDevelop). VS Rocks. Sorry.

Linux is ok for many things. But Windows has its market, its applications and its users. Some applications, not matter how good they are on linux, do not come close to their Redmond Counterparts.

And I use OS X now ;) Also that explains the iTunes problem. You have mentioned some stuff for KDE... that's not iTunes, that's a hack.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Problems with Linux
by ecko on Tue 16th Aug 2005 20:32 in reply to "Problems with Linux"
ecko Member since:
2005-07-08

1) GTKPod works fine. It even lets you get music back off your iPod and onto your hard drive. Does iTunes do that? My iPod goes from my PC running debian to my G5 running yellowdog and I can add remove songs on both.

2) Kino, gimp-video, the gimp. If you're not a professional you'll probably be satisfied and hey...it's cheap.

3) Can't argue there. I have a PS2, I do serious work on my PC and fuck around with my PS2. Windows does everything but does nothing exceptionall well. Linux is rock solid and secure. I have a lot of sensitive work material on my machine. I would NOT trust Windows with it and neither does my company.

4)NVidia drivers are top notch and release often. My solution is to run Nvidia hardware. I'm not looking for great gaming cards I need my computer for work but my GF4 runs great.

5) Are you a real developer or just someone who dicks around in Visual Studio? This is an honest question. Whatever you can do in Visual Studio you can do on linux. If you need an IDE that holds your hand there's always Eclipse and monodevelop is coming along nicely. Glade for making XML defined UI's(this doesn't exist on windows yet, but apparantly it's coming) is a godsend.

I'm tired of these types of post. It's obvious you have not a clue what you're talking about and it shows. I like Windows, I like Linux, I like solaris but I don't pretend any of them is better than the other and if I'm gonna put one of them down I'm sure as shit gonna know what I'm talking about.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Problems with Linux
by abraxas on Wed 17th Aug 2005 02:19 in reply to "Problems with Linux"
abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

I use iTunes, I actually like it. I use iTunes with Audible Audio to get stories and articles that I listen to on my daily commute. Is there currently a Gnome and KDE application that allows me to interface with iTunes Music Store and upload content onto my iPod?

Well iTunes works with wine, well with crossover at least. I have a better solution though, get rid of the iPod. Seriously those things are terrible. They break so easily and have jack crap for features. I never understood why people like them.

#2 I do a lot of photo and video editing. Are there currently any applications that have the power of Photoshop or Premiere?

Not that I know of. Gimp is great but if you are a photoshop fanatic already then you're going to hate it. I personally like it better though because I never was a big Photoshop user when I primarily used Windows. One cool thing is that CinePaint (which is based on the Gimp) is used a lot in the movie industry. It is only used to touch up film, but it does have some features that Photoshop does not.

#4 Further, is the driver quality of hardware products. Has anyone ever seriously used ATI drivers for gaming or media? When will Visioneer scanners be supported (pick other hardware)?

I've known some people that have used ATI for games on Linux but it's not pretty. Nvidia is much better on Linux so you'll have to switch if you want to play serious games. As far as Visioneer goes, some of them work with SANE and some of them (the model I have included) do not.

#5 Visual Studio 2005. When is their going to be a visual IDE that has the quality and the "libraries" available on Linux to make porting easy? Most do not want to write code in Vi or Emacs.

There are plenty of quality IDEs out there although I still prefer vi. Check out Eclipse, Anjuta, and KDevelop. Glade + Anjuta makes building a GNOME or just plain old GTK+ pretty easy. KDevelop + QT Designer is damn good too.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Problems with Linux
by on Wed 17th Aug 2005 05:59 in reply to "Problems with Linux"
Member since:

#1 I use iTunes, I actually like it. I use iTunes with Audible Audio to get stories and articles that I listen to on my daily commute. Is there currently a Gnome and KDE application that allows me to interface with iTunes Music Store and upload content onto my iPod?

MediaChest - a java application, but has better ipod functionality than iTunes in my view. Gtkpod, and I think amarok all support ipods. Don't know about the music store - can't you just use a browser for that?

#2 I do a lot of photo and video editing. Are there currently any applications that have the power of Photoshop or Premiere?

For video editing, there is MainACtor 5 - it's a pay solution, but works very well. For non-pay, the only one that's stable and works well is kino. For photo editing, there is the gimp. There is also krita - from their website:

"Krita is a painting and image editing application for KOffice. Krita is part of KOffice since 1.4. Krita contains both ease-of-use and fun features like guided painting (never before has it been so easy to airbrush a straight line!) and high-end features like support for 16 bit images, CMYK and even OpenEXR HDR images."

so it has the "magic" cmyk support that everyone goes on about with photoshop. For more consumer/low end, there's digikam for basic editing/redeye/printing/emailing images/slideshows etc. There's also kimdaba for photo management.

#3 I happen to like online PC Gaming, I know that I could get an Xbox/PS2, but that is not the same as having a highend video card on a 21" LCD display. I currently play HalfLife II, Splinter Cell series, NBA Basketball, NHL Hockey, and MVP baseball. Do any of these games currently work under linux besides Halflife?

No idea. Can't comment, I don't do gaming.

#4 Further, is the driver quality of hardware products. Has anyone ever seriously used ATI drivers for gaming or media? When will Visioneer scanners be supported (pick other hardware)?

I've used ATI before, and 3d acceleration worked out of the box - this was about 2 years ago. Don't know what the situation is today. However, it is possible to pick out all sorts of hardware that has poor driver support on Windows. It's not a reason to condemn a whole OS. Pick the hardware that's supported by your OS - Mac does it.

#5 Visual Studio 2005. When is their going to be a visual IDE that has the quality and the "libraries" available on Linux to make porting easy? Most do not want to write code in Vi or Emacs.

Huh? Linux is a developer's paradise. There are ide's for all sorts of languages all over the place. This is an extraordinary and telling comment.

Reply Parent Score: 0