Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 30th Nov 2006 22:51 UTC
Novell and Ximian Novell on Nov. 30 announced its latest NetWare upgrade operating system, the Linux-powered Novell Open Enterprise Server 2. OES, which will be based on Novell's SLES 10, is designed to be a drop-in replacement for Novell NetWare servers, and a direct competitor to Microsoft's Server 2003.
Thread beginning with comment 187021
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
archiesteel
Member since:
2005-07-02

Yes, NotParker has proven to be a particularly provocative brand of troll. The vast majority of what he says is BS intended to provoke emotional responses. I imagine he'll stick around until his trust rating goes negative, then he'll abandon that person and make up a new one so he can come back and waste his days making overblown and easily countered attacks on Linux.

Reply Parent Score: 5

crazybob Member since:
2006-11-25

I was going to reply to him but when I read your post I understood. Thanks for saving me the time.

Reply Parent Score: 3

archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

"But don't you agree that implying or stating directly that users of FOSS are more ethical than users of "proprietary" software is hateful?"

No, I disagree. If, in your personal code of ethics, proprietary code is unethical, then you might consider its users to be therefore unethical by using it. If your personal code of ethics disagrees with this notion, then of course you'll also disagree with the statement. However, there is nothing "hateful" about this, anymore than the fact that a vegetarian believes that us meat-eaters are unethical, or that a born-again Christian will believe that someone will go to Hell if they commit sins and not repent.

I *do* believe that trolling message boards by making inflammatory remarks designed to create off-topic arguments *is* unethical, but that's because it disagrees with my personal code of ethics. Obviously, that's not the case for you.

Reply Parent Score: 2

crazybob Member since:
2006-11-25

And out of curiosity, where did I say, or even imply, that FOSS users are more ethical than proprietary software users? All I said was Novell didn't understand FOSS ethics.

Reply Parent Score: 3

IanSVT Member since:
2005-07-06

NotParker, do you have anything better to do? Really, I'm not a FOSS wacko, so you don't say anything that hits a nerve with me. But, don't you ever wonder to yourself, "why am I wasting all this time posting all this bait?".

Reply Parent Score: 3

archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

And don't you think certain thoughts are required to be a full fledged FOSS community member.

No, I don't, which makes most of your attacks poorly-constructed (and off-topic) strawman arguments.

You have to hate Microsoft.

You don't. The fact that most Linux users dislike Microsoft is that in the past (and still today, at least if we are to believe Ballmer), MS has had an agenda to discredit, weaken, ridicule or even sue the free Operating System. If MS had contributed to Linux and/or published software to Linux from the start instead of trying to destroy it (as it had done for so many other competitors), then the Linux people wouldn't be so wary of the software giant. MS has no one else to blame than itself for being so unpopular.

But the truth is that "wariness" and "dislike" are not the same as hate. Hate is an irrational, passionate emotion. See, it's like this: I dislike and distrust Microsoft for rational reaons, while you hate Linux for irrational ones. Simple, isn't it?

Also, you'll find that many users who are wary of MS in the OS and Office markets have nothing against MS in other markets (I personally own an Xbox, and I used to have a Microsoft mouse). It's certainly not as black and white as you want to portray it.

You have to think proprietary software is EVIL?

Unethical is not evil. I personally am not opposed to proprietary software per se, but I do think that FOSS is preferable. However, bringing these opinions down to an infantile "good vs. evil" dichotomy is just asking to be flamed.

You have to think and say the GPL is "more free" than the BSD license?

Well, there's a good argument to be made about this, but the fact of the matter is that *both* licenses are free, they are just free in different ways. The GPL is better to protect the freedom of the code for users, while the BSD gives more potential freedom to developers, mainly the possibility to make derivatives un-free. In other words, the BSD license makes it possible for developers to restrict the freedom of users, which in itself is a freedom.

It is a well-known fact for anyone who studies law or political science that some freedoms must be curtailed in order to protect other freedoms. For example, my freedom to walk over to you and punch you on the nose is severely restricted, so that you may enjoy freedom from fear of having a broken nose. That is a reasonable limitation on freedom.

Similarly, GPL proponents believe that the limits on a developer's freedom to alter the code and release the derivative under a non-free license is justified in order to ensure the freedom of users to use, distribute and modify that derivative. You may agree with it or not, but that's part of the GPL advocate's code of ethics, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with this.

(This post is GPLed...feel free to distribute, reuse or modify it in any way. ;-)

Reply Parent Score: 2

stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

So how much of what you say is actually 'well referenced and designed to annoy by being factual'? Here's a sample:

"the Firefox trainwreck destorys us all.."
"OSS fanatics are like Russians during the cold war"
"makes us feel like westerners visiting Eastern Europe during the cold war"
"I think you should pull your head out of your *ss. "
"the insane to indulge in their anti-Microsoft conspiracy theories"
"Lying is a bad way to start an article."
"GPLv3 wants to recreate dll hell."
"stole its IP"
"Linux has zero chance of catching Windows."
"Linux is way more bloated." [than Vista] hahaha -ed.
"Are all OSS fanatics this cheap? "
"Java is a con game"
"Security by design? Linux? OSS? I laugh!"
"Of course OSS stole IP. Thats what they do! "
"What a load of bull you are spewing."
"Nah nah nah nah ... nah nah nah na"
"25,000 bounty to the family of suicide bombers for killing lots of jews."
"OSS lie ... Debian's been cracked."
"making stuff up to cover up incompetence"

"OSS fanatics" "OSS crybabies" "Linux fanatcis" "cultists" "cults" "cult" "cult" "unethical" "hypocracy" "cultists" "Communist" "cultists are all hypocrites" "excommunicated" "cultists" "cult" "cultists" "cultist" "cultists" "slavery" "mentally ill" "Slavery" "cultist" "cultist" "cultists" "cult" "cult" "nutbar cult" "cult" "cult" "cult" "cultist" "cult" "cult members"
"You cultists are a laugh!"
"Stop behaving like a cult"
"tiny little heads of OSS fanatics explode."
"Firefox is old and tired and full of security holes."
"they stole the Mosaic code"
"Picking a distro is a crap shoot."
"Firefox is a sieve."
"another bullsh*t myth"
"open source is thievery. "
"How long have you lived on Fantasy Island?"
"OSS is just a loony cult."
"excommunicated" "excommunicated" "excommunicated for dealing with the Devil"
"You really know nothing"
"ignorant anti-Microsft FUD"

Reply Parent Score: 3

Ventajou Member since:
2006-10-31

Yes but who cares about facts anymore? I, for one, enjoy reading your posts. But alot of vocal people around here seem to think that things either have to be black or white and that since Microsoft is the big evil one, then nothing remotely positive can come from, or be said about, them...

Maybe they just need to grow up...

Reply Parent Score: 1

archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

But don't you think many of my posts are well referenced and designed to annoy by being factual and contrary to what many in the "FOSS community" mistakenly believe?

No, I don't. When someone offers a counter-argument, you either a) ignore them, or b) simply restate your original argument.

Oh, and ethical beliefs cannot be "mistaken". If someone believes that proprietary software is unethical, you can certainly disagree, but you cannot claim that they are factually wrong.

You need to learn more about ethics, and work on your manners. Even if you were right (which, in my opinion, you're not), you'll never win anyone over to your viewpoint by insulting them.

Not to mention that being more civil would mean your posts wouldn't be buried, which right now makes this a huge waste of time on your part since people will simply not read them.

It's not too late to leave the dark side, young troll... :-)

Reply Parent Score: 2