Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 23rd Dec 2006 17:45 UTC
X11, Window Managers Apparently, my article a few days ago caused a bigger stir than I had anticipated, not at all unrelated to the fact that my wordings may not have been optimal. So, let me clarify things a bit.
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RE[3]: What is this all about?
by raver31 on Sun 24th Dec 2006 10:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: What is this all about?"
raver31
Member since:
2005-07-06

No-one is saying bluetooth should not be available. They are saying it should not be installed by default.

How easy is it to click Gnomebluetooth in synaptic, then click apply ?

Using your logic, you want bluetooth enabled out of the box.
OK, and I want gkrellm, gps, gaim to be installed out of the box.

do you want them too ?
no...
then you would class that as bloat.

keep it basic and install the missing parts yourself

Reply Parent Score: 4

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

keep it basic and install the missing parts yourself

Yet one of the most heard complaints heard when talking about Windows is that it comes with little pre-installed...

hy·poc·ri·sy
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: What is this all about?
by tux68 on Sun 24th Dec 2006 11:05 in reply to "RE[4]: What is this all about?"
tux68 Member since:
2006-10-24

Thom,

This kind of post is far beneath anyone who wants to present themselves as a reasonable person who wants to have intelligent discussions about OS related news. It looks petty.

Are you calling the O/P a hypocrite? Do you know for a fact that he or she has ever complained about Windows at all? Or are you trying to label an entire group of people as "hypocrites" because some member of that group have conflicting opinions? You really need to stop slinging that word around. It's rather sad.

By the way, you're confusing the usual complaint. It's not that Windows comes with so little pre-installed. It's that it's not even an _option_ to install it. MS Windows doesn't have the _option_ of installing a Yahoo client for instance, the way any Linux distro does. Instead you have to find a random third party web site and install it yourself. The difference on Linux is that you open up your software-installer app and choose whatever pieces you want from a large selection of sorted options; click and your done. On top of which, many Linux installs actually do just install a huge number of packages for you to use, way more than you get with Windows out-of-the-box.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: What is this all about?
by raver31 on Sun 24th Dec 2006 11:24 in reply to "RE[4]: What is this all about?"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

Such a pity we cannot mod you down Thom....

People are not complaining that windows has little preinstalled, compared to linux.

They are complaining of a few things;

1: Limited choice of installed applications
2: Nothing "useful" installed by defauls
3: System bloat

Lets look at point 3

Windows 98 basic install, you get Wordpad, notpad, media player, ie, solitaire..... approx 100mb
Windows ME same basic install..... approx 400mb
Windows XP, yepl exactly the same stuff.... roughly 1GB
Windows Vista..... 4gb for the equivilent of 100mb ?

Now, I will restate,

KEEP IT BASIC AND INSTALL THE MISSING PARTS YOURSELF

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: What is this all about?
by D3M0N on Sun 24th Dec 2006 19:35 in reply to "RE[3]: What is this all about?"
D3M0N Member since:
2005-07-09

Why? XP has it, OS X has it. People moving from those OSes would be expecting it. Something as trivial as bluetooth *should* come with it.

People complain that Windows doesn't come with enough applications, yet it comes with every single example that was listed. It comes with a video editor (Windows Movie Maker), Windows Messenger, and bluetooth. How is that bloat? They're all usable features. Now, if there were 7 applications that did the same thing in a default gnome install and WEREN'T usable for a vast majority of users, THAT would be bloat. The thing is, you're not an average joe user.

Reply Parent Score: 1