Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 16th Jan 2007 13:34 UTC, submitted by Tomasz Dominikowski
SkyOS Lots of news on SkyOS. Kaffe using GNU Classpath (without AWT) is now working fine on SkyOS, just like Wine. Although there is no Wine graphics driver yet, you can already start Windows console applications directly from within SkyOS (once a Wine/SkyGI backend is available Wine should run on SkyOS as good as it does on Linux, and will be available via Software Store). On the driver side there is now an ACPI driver including support for ACPI power/sleep buttons (a SkyOS service, the PowerMonitor, will react on power events with configurable actions like shutdown, reboot, etc.). And finally, the SkyOS LiveCD is shaping together and should soon be available. Take a look at the changelog for all updates. Note: If you have problems accessing the SkyOS.org website, please click read more for how to solve this issue. Other than that, read more for a first glimpse of yet another improvement coming to SkyOS.
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Giving in?
by johndaly on Tue 16th Jan 2007 17:24 UTC
johndaly
Member since:
2006-01-16

Why is SkyOS giving in to the Idiots, um Users, this much? If you read the forum you find lots of threads along the line of >>port this, port that, I want my favorite programming language ported<< all over the place.
At the same time some interesting projects like the Humble Framework appear to have died. I would like to see some work done on SkyOSes API documentation, a few tutorials on some basic apps (there are enough small games to write a tutorial for) and a place where native SkyOS projects can get hosted with source code on the main site (there appear to be a few FLOSS projects in various state of abandon on the forum).
C and C++ aren't bad languages, and it would be nice to see some more native development instead of ports of the same old software that runs on every Unix clone out there. There was talk at one time to produce a native interface for the Gimp and other ported GTK+ applications, you don't hear anything about that anymore.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Giving in?
by zizban on Tue 16th Jan 2007 18:00 in reply to "Giving in?"
zizban Member since:
2005-07-06

Okay, I'll disregard your offensive lanquage to answer some of your questions:

Deciding what to port and what not to port is up to Robert. I was against Wine because it doesn't encourage native apps. This was one reason why Linux binary compatiabliity was dropped. But that's Robert's choice.

Humble Framework was one third party programmer who simply didn't have time to continue it. Not much one can do there.

FLOSS programs in various states of abandon, which ones?

The source code to some example apps will do you zero good. There is a cross compiler for Windows but you still need SkyOS to do the actual work. If you buy the beta you get tons of source code examples on the CD.

Finally, the api documentation is in sad shape for two reasons: For a while it was in flux but now that it has stabillized the second reason comes up: We need more people document the APIs fully. Robert simply doesn't have time to do everything.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Giving in?
by johndaly on Tue 16th Jan 2007 19:32 in reply to "RE: Giving in?"
johndaly Member since:
2006-01-16

>>Humble Framework was one third party programmer who
>>simply didn't have time to continue it. Not much one
>>can do there.

I know what the Humble Framework is, some others in your community I'm not so sure of. It appears somebody started another C++ wrapper (SkyGI++) instead of continuing work on the Humble Framework. Something like this should be part of SkyOS proper, even if the source is open.

>>FLOSS programs in various states of abandon, which
>>ones?

Well for one there is the Humble Framework we are talking about [1] and there was the SkyFTP client somebody was working on and wanted to open source once he didn't have the time anymore. I don't know if that developer fallowed through though. I'm not sure but I believe there where some other source dumps in your forum for small games.

>>The source code to some example apps will do you zero
>>good. There is a cross compiler for Windows but you
>>still need SkyOS to do the actual work. If you buy the
>>beta you get tons of source code examples on the CD.

I'm not talking about source for example apps, I'm talking about tutorials for those apps. You had some people that where inexperienced developers, didn't know C/C++ or where just interested in learning programming to produce native apps. It would be nice to make it easier for them to get started; in my opinion tutorials are a big part of that.
By the way I tried the cross compiler setup a long time ago, in my opinion it sucked.

>>Finally, the api documentation is in sad shape for
>>two reasons: For a while it was in flux but now that
>>it has stabillized the second reason comes up: We
>>need more people document the APIs fully. Robert
>>simply doesn't have time to do everything.

You need more people period, not just for documenting the APIs but also to develop and port apps. I believe you have instituted the Beta Application for Developers to get more people? How's that turning out for you?
You have Robert porting apps, porting programming languages and writing the OS, of course he doesn't have enough time to also write the documentation but tell me who besides him knows SkyOS well enough to do that job?

You have some problems to solve and the large proportion of hollow headed fluff bunnies hopping around in your forum won't be able to help you.

1: http://www.humble-programmer.com/skyos/humble/

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Giving in?
by arielb on Tue 16th Jan 2007 19:21 in reply to "Giving in?"
arielb Member since:
2006-11-15

every new exciting OS needs lots of quick old ports so that people have something to play with until the real stuff comes.

java apps on the other hand is something I could never understand.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Giving in?
by sirhomer on Tue 16th Jan 2007 19:40 in reply to "Giving in?"
sirhomer Member since:
2007-01-03

I would also like to bring up that SkyOS API is not C++, but C. Yes, C. When you want to code a native GUI application for SkyOS, it must be done in C, as some programmers know, is horrible for GUI development. There are very few "native" applications for SkyOS for the reason that it's so damn hard to develop for. That is why there is such demand to port Perl/Java/Python/C#/Ruby etc. to the system.

But realizing this, what is the advantage of SkyOS? None. Nothing. Nada. Is it fast? Heck no. It's *very* slow. Firefox takes roughly 40 seconds to load on SkyOS. Is it stable? Nope. Regular applications regularly bring down the whole system, even ones developed by Jinnworks themselves. Thunderbird often crashes *the whole system* at Send/Rcive. Does it have alot of applications? Heck no. It consists of about ten of so featureless and broken "native" applications, and incomplete UNIX ports of 2 year old software. Good hardware support? If you even get SkyOS running natively outside of VMWare, you are one of the lucky few. Also, it has absolutely no video acceleration (runs in VESA mode), and poor support for things like USB Mice. Does it do anything revolutionary? Nope.

Of course, of course, Kelly will come here and say how I am all wrong and you shouldn't listen to me. How SkyOS 5 is still a "beta" (it's been beta for years), and how with SkyOS 5 it will become the best OS ever created. Thom will continue posting these articles hook, line, and sinker. Every time SkyOS gets some half implemented feature Linux or Windows had 10 years ago, you will see some elaborate article about it here. Then you will see the first three or so posts by the cult of personality. "Robert is so f**king amazing!" It will unfortunately continue, and people will continue to get sold snake oil.

Fact of the matter is, SkyOS *right now* takes a lot of memory, is slow, crashes very easily, supports almost no hardware, has very few applications, the native applications it has have very few features, and is hard to develop for. Kelly and Robert won't tell you any of this.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Giving in?
by Robert on Tue 16th Jan 2007 20:06 in reply to "RE: Giving in?"
Robert Member since:
2005-07-06

@sirhomer:
Come on, stop lying, as I asked you multiple times already. Also, you still refuse to post any debug reports, if you are so upset with your problems, why not just report them so that they get fixed? (But maybe you just want to rant about SkyOS, which I have to say, seems to be so regarding your posts to this and the last SkyOS topics here on osnews.) Oh well,...

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Giving in?
by Valhalla on Tue 16th Jan 2007 20:12 in reply to "RE: Giving in?"
Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

sirhomer wrote:
-"Thom will continue posting these articles hook, line, and sinker. Every time SkyOS gets some half implemented feature Linux or Windows had 10 years ago, you will see some elaborate article about it here. Then you will see the first three or so posts by the cult of personality.

well, this is OSNews. and I for one think it's more important for a site like this to put the spotlight on the more obscure operating systems out there rather than those who already get mainstream coverage.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Giving in?
by grable on Tue 16th Jan 2007 20:30 in reply to "RE: Giving in?"
grable Member since:
2006-11-24

>> Firefox takes roughly 40 seconds to load on SkyOS

Atleast its faster than firefox on windows ;)

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Giving in?
by Kelly Rush on Tue 16th Jan 2007 20:39 in reply to "RE: Giving in?"
Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

SkyOS runs so slow because it has a lot of debugging code in it. I'm not covering anything up, that's just the cold hard truth, buddy. ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2