Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 22nd Jan 2007 16:56 UTC, submitted by Robert
Novell and Ximian Novell might have signed a patent and interoperability deal with Microsoft Corp but it is not about to give up competing with the software giant and last week released a study that suggests its Linux desktop product is better value than Windows Vista. The company's competitive guide compares SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop with Windows Vista and claims that the Linux product provides 90% of Vista's functionality and 10% of the price.
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Linux is free if your Time is Worthless
by rakamaka on Mon 22nd Jan 2007 17:19 UTC
rakamaka
Member since:
2005-08-12

My troll - feel free to mod down
I will just ask one question of self introspection to those trying to support linux as free alternative.

Multiply your hours spent on tweaking linux system, and solving intricate config files for working camera, printer, scanner etc etc. consider average base rate of 1hr = $10. What is your real cost?

Consider your time spent, on that Novell or Ubuntu box in your basement, in isolation, away from wife, kids, other little pleasures because you want to get that damn scanner or wifi card configured for your new shiny kernel 2.xx or KDE 4.xx. You will realize when your wife leaves you seeing that you have married to that linux box.

Consider cost of getting free windows programs(which is myth in linux community, how can be a windows program is free) examples firefox, OO, avast antivirus, paint.net, comodo firewall, adware, spybot, spywareblaster, GIMP, picasa, and thousands other to secure your windows machine and you will never have to look for paid program. Windows is costly-is the FUD by linux zealots.
This is link to get BEST FREEWARE UTILITIES for windoes machine.
http://www.techsupportalert.com/best_46_free_utilities.htm
and on top of that ALL YOUR HARDWARE, PERIPHERALS WORKS and INSTALLS in less that 10 minutes on windows machine.....

Reply Score: -5

IanSVT Member since:
2005-07-06

You're missing the point. It's about the business OS, not the play in your "basement" OS.

Reply Parent Score: 5

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

You're missing the point. It's about the business OS, not the play in your "basement" OS.

Correct. Though I can run Windows at home with 0 maintenance/security issues, I'd rather have my balls crushed by a wooden mallot than have to administrate it on 500 desktops. In fact, I'm pretty sure I'd need a bottle of Jack Daniels stashed in my desk drawer just to help relieve the stress a little ;) I don't know how Linux would fair in this regard, but hell .. it couldn't possibly do much worse.

Reply Parent Score: 5

abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

Multiply your hours spent on tweaking linux system, and solving intricate config files for working camera, printer, scanner etc etc. consider average base rate of 1hr = $10. What is your real cost?

I don't think you read the article. We're talking about business here not home use. All your examples are poor because they work out of the box on Suse.

Consider your time spent, on that Novell or Ubuntu box in your basement, in isolation, away from wife, kids, other little pleasures because you want to get that damn scanner or wifi card configured for your new shiny kernel 2.xx or KDE 4.xx. You will realize when your wife leaves you seeing that you have married to that linux box.

Again it would have helped if you read the article. This isn't comparing Windows with Linux, it's comparing Vista to Novell Desktop. The article is also focused on business use, not home use.

Consider cost of getting free windows programs(which is myth in linux community, how can be a windows program is free) examples firefox, OO, avast antivirus, paint.net, comodo firewall, adware, spybot, spywareblaster, GIMP, picasa, and thousands other to secure your windows machine and you will never have to look for paid program. Windows is costly-is the FUD by linux zealots.
This is link to get BEST FREEWARE UTILITIES for windoes machine.


You won't find freeware utilities on enterprise desktops. You will however, find free (GPL free) enterprise level applications on enterprise desktops from Suse. Besides most of the applications you mention are antivirus or antispyware. Linux doesn't need those for the desktop. The security provided by AppArmor exceeds that of the security applications you mention by an order of magnitude.

ALL YOUR HARDWARE, PERIPHERALS WORKS and INSTALLS in less that 10 minutes on windows machine.....

In a business environment this makes no sense. All hardware is bought with support in mind. All installs are done from images, not an individual basis.

If you ignore the fact that we are talking about businesses, it is obvious that you have never installed Windows and all its peripherals before. Windows can be a hassle unless you have OEM recovery discs or images. HP printer drivers alone take 30+ minutes to install. SATA HDDs aren't supported by an OEM Windows install disk. From my own experience I have found it much easier to install Linux on a computer than Windows. I never had to track down drivers. Almost everything worked out of the box and the few drivers that weren't on the install disc for my distribution were available through the package manager.

Reply Parent Score: 5

amadensor Member since:
2006-04-10

Unfortunately, you are mistaken again. I have both Windows and Linux in my house. Linux takes approximately 10% more effort to install (I choose to specify more about disk partitions) but less total time to install and set up. My Linux time is about 12 minutes from bare metal, where, the Windows machine is about 45 minutes. Linux patches to get up to date require about 5 minutes of my time. I have not timed the actual download, but it does not reqire any effort or monitoring by me. Windows, the last time I did a bare metal install took 6 hours to complete the updates, with my attemtion required every hour or so throughout the process.

From there, it gets worse. I spend more time fixing Windows than Linux, even though the Windows machine is not mine (my wife uses Windows, is computer savy and does most of her own maintenance.) I also need to do more frequent re-installs (45 minutes+updates) about every 6 months to a year as compared to when I buy a PC. And after a re-install, the patches take several hours to do (and I have a high speed line) with the download of patches to get to where I can download SP2, the the time for SP2, and then the patches that follow that, where with the Linux machine, it does not take the multiple itterations of updating, and also, I do not have to monitor it. I simply tell it to do the update, and I can go do something else.

The savings of Linux over Windows are small at purchase time. You real savings are down the road with reduced maintenance and easier managment of upgrades.

Reply Parent Score: 5

zerohalo Member since:
2005-07-26

I agree.

Sure, Linux has a bit of a higher learning curve when it comes to setup and administration (besides the very basic install). However, most of that learning curve is because people are used to Windows. Take someone who has never used either Windows or Linux and I'm not sure the difference would be that great.

But even with the learning curve, I have non-geek friends who have switched from Windows to Linux on their small Home networks, because the time that it was taking them to deal with malware/trojans/viruses on Windows was much greater than the time that it took them to learn how to set up and administer Linux.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Dark_Knight Member since:
2005-07-10

Novell's commercial Linux distribution SLED (SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop) is not the same as OpenSUSE. It also targets a different market similar to how Windows Vista Ultimate would be overkill for someone using it in the home.

Novell is correct that SLED does cost less for businesses than Microsoft's Windows Vista Ultimate which is including both tech support and the OS per client (workstation). SLED also works on older hardware unlike Windows Vista which has strict requirements to run it's eye candy effects causing it to behave more of a resource hog than Windows XP Progessional.

Novell's Linux solutions aren't the perfect solution for everyone and reason why they believe SLED can meet 90% of consumers requirements. For example Novell does need to work more closely with manufacturers like Logitech, D-Link, etc to get better driver support for webcams, wireless cards, etc. D-Link is reluctant to supply Linux drivers with their products even though there are manufacturers such as Linksys that do provide Linux support. To get a manufacturers support I find it's better to let the company know via email or phone call that you're going to start buying from their competitors unless the company starts providing real cross platform support. I recommend for consumers considering using either a Linux distribution or upgrading/purchasing Windows Vista should do some research to ensure you have driver support for the hardware you currently use. D-Link as pointed out doesn't provide Linux drivers and has recently notified me via email that they don't have a timeline on when drivers for Windows Vista will be released for their products. Logitech released a Windows Vista driver for the Logitech Orbit but I have yet to get it working properly on my test system.

Definitely some things to consider whether you're purchasing Windows Vista as an upgrade or with a new system. The same goes for those considering switching to Linux or switching Linux distributions. Don't believe all the hype no matter what OS you're considering using. It really is a "consumer beware" market.

Reply Parent Score: 4

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Consider cost of getting free windows programs(which is myth in linux community, how can be a windows program is free) examples firefox, OO, avast antivirus, paint.net, comodo firewall, adware, spybot, spywareblaster, GIMP...

There's only one problem. In a Linux distrbution, I have an awful lot of those applications ready to install at the click of a button. I don't need anti-virus, free or otherwise, and I don't need to spend half my life finding out where to get these things and spend the other half downloading a ton of exe files and then install each individual one.

If nothing else, you've given an example of why it's a bad idea to write open source software for Windows, simply in order for Microsoft to sell Windows. After all, remember that if you're an ISV developing on Windows, whether you develop free software or not, you're a one night stand:

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleB...

and on top of that ALL YOUR HARDWARE, PERIPHERALS WORKS and INSTALLS in less that 10 minutes on windows machine.....

Yer. Right after I've downloaded and installed those motherboard drivers I already have installed with Linux (assuming that goes OK), along with my graphics drivers, my TV card drivers and the awful software that comes with it (I already have TV card drivers installed on Linux and Kaffeine allows me to watch TV in a couple of minutes of scanning), download and configure my wireless drivers............................ That's assuming I've got the discs or know where to download them from online.

And then I go on holiday to get over it.

10 minutes. Bugger. If you do all that above then you've got little time to even get yourself a wife.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Axord Member since:
2005-06-30

If nothing else, you've given an example of why it's a bad idea to write open source software for Windows, simply in order for Microsoft to sell Windows.

Does that outweigh the benefits of cross-platform software? If the state of software is equal between two platforms then people would choose solely based on the merit of the platforms.

Additionally, switching both the platform and the apps at once is more difficult than just switching either the apps or the platform individually.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Xaero_Vincent Member since:
2006-08-18

I always enjoy the remark: "Linux is free if your time is worthless".

Well Windows isn't free if your time is worthless. Buying a new computer to run it isn't free either.

OK... maybe free for lucky winners. But frankly I haven't won anything lately. Have you?

Whether its learning the new APIs, navigating menus, figuring out why your apps wont work, or performing ritual clicking exercises on security prompts; there is a certain learning curve people will face.

Reply Parent Score: 3