Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 1st Feb 2007 01:12 UTC, submitted by jayson.knight
Microsoft After 17 years with the company, Jim Allchin retired from Microsoft as of Jan. 30, 2007 – the day on which Microsoft officially released the Windows Vista operating system to consumers. James (Jim) Allchin served as co-president of Microsoft's Platforms & Services Division from September 2005 until his retirement. In that position, Allchin shared overall responsibility with Kevin Johnson for the division of the company that includes the Windows and Windows Live Group, Windows Live Platform Group, Online Business Group, Market Expansion Group, Core Operating System Division, Windows Client Marketing Group, Developer and Platform Evangelism Group, and the Server and Tools Business Group.
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RE[5]: Gates and now Allchin
by kaiwai on Thu 1st Feb 2007 20:17 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Gates and now Allchin"
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

MOST alternatives have worse hardware support than Windows. Gee, I wonder whose fault that is.

The fault lies with the Linux programmers and the Linux distribution companies who refuse or simply too lazy to talk to hardware companies to get hardware support improved.

Eh, what?

Dearth - shortage, commonly used in the context of food.

There is a shortage, apart from some 'compatibility' and 'emulation' applications, by enlarge, there is no proprietary third party network; why haven't Novell and Red Hat done anything to encourage third parties to release desktop software for Linux? why don't these organisations invest money into the respective companies as to pay for the porting of those applications?

I agree, Microsoft's monopoly is completely explicable, but for completely different reasons than you would like to pretend. For example, even if NO other operating system had ANY hardware support at all, I am still PERFECTLY within my rights to have computers I buy supplied without an operating system so that I can install any I wish - but just try telling that to PC vendors.

You can do it right now; go down to your local computer assembly place and purchase one; white box manufacturers make up over 50% of the computers sold globally, they're hardly a weird thing.

Despite your contention to the contrary, there are now more areas than ever where users of other platforms can opt for similar and compatible applications, and that trend will most likely only continue. Whatever you think of Scribus, for example, it's one area I did not expect to see addressed by FOSS programs for quite a while yet. (And there are other, proprietary, alternatives). However, in the interim it might be a good idea for more Linux distributors to start shipping CrossOver Office.

Ok, we'll rely on Crossover - why don't I see the big distributors work with Crossover and third parties to add to wine as to allow greater compatibility between Windows applications and wine? there seems to be alot of things which the linux distributors fail to do - simply sitting on the side lines *hoping* for a company to port to Linux isn't a viable long term stratergy.

As for Scribus; great tool, and what I think they should do is start offering a 'add on pack' which includes an array of templates and clipart for a nominal fee - the money acquired from those sales could fund the project itself.

Microsoft have shown themselves perfectly capable of shipping bucketloads of an excrescence with impunity - I refer not only to WindowsME, which I know only by reputation, but to Windows98 also. It's not quality of the product that matters when people buy operating systems, it's quality of marketing.

Hence the reason I threw out the whole 'branding' junk which Microsoft threw around; the net is a whole new ball game and Microsoft doesn't quite no how to approach it; they'll eventually get there with a viable product, but I don't seem them being a major player.

Microsoft isn't going go away but I do think that their future growth will be stagnating if they don't do something about the fundamental problem with their business model - sure, people will point to the $50billion as proof that 'all is good' - a more recently example would be sun who had $9billion at one stage; time can creap up on those companies who are unprepared.

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RE[6]: Gates and now Allchin
by twenex on Thu 1st Feb 2007 22:02 in reply to "RE[5]: Gates and now Allchin"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

The fault lies with the Linux programmers and the Linux distribution companies who refuse or simply too lazy to talk to hardware companies to get hardware support improved.

In your dreams.

Dearth - shortage, commonly used in the context of food.

I know what 'dearth' means. The difficulty with you is not understanding your middle-school vocabulary, it's with figuring out what planet you're observing when you make these bananas claims.

There is a shortage, apart from some 'compatibility' and 'emulation' applications, by enlarge, there is no proprietary third party network; why haven't Novell and Red Hat done anything to encourage third parties to release desktop software for Linux? why don't these organisations invest money into the respective companies as to pay for the porting of those applications?

How do you know they haven't, O Omniscient One? What if they refuse (or are paid off by Microsoft, like Corel)? It takes two to Tango.

You can do it right now; go down to your local computer assembly place and purchase one; white box manufacturers make up over 50% of the computers sold globally, they're hardly a weird thing.

I seriously question your claim that over 50% of computers sold to the public are DIY jobs. I would also seriously question any claim you might make that (a) it's easy to get a laptop supplied without Windows or (b) a significant proportion of those are DIY jobs.

Ok, we'll rely on Crossover - why don't I see the big distributors work with Crossover and third parties to add to wine as to allow greater compatibility between Windows applications and wine? there seems to be alot of things which the linux distributors fail to do - simply sitting on the side lines *hoping* for a company to port to Linux isn't a viable long term stratergy.

It would be nice if, for once, one of you Windows-worshipping Linux-doubting Thomases would actually specify at least one of these nebulous "problems" with Linux.

Do you actually know what is involved with creating software? Is it hard to understand that "the problems with Wine" are because Windows is closed source with (allegedly) secret API's and therefore there is NO information "out in the wild" which would help to alleviate these problems. If Wine isn't perfect, it's amazing it works as well as it does.


As for Scribus; great tool, and what I think they should do is start offering a 'add on pack' which includes an array of templates and clipart for a nominal fee - the money acquired from those sales could fund the project itself.


Great! Let's turn one of the foremost free software packages into a carrot for the stick of proprietary software!!!

Don't you people actually understand that FOSS users will PAY for software that is worth their time WITHOUT all your proprietary penis extensions?

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RE[7]: Gates and now Allchin
by kaiwai on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 00:58 in reply to "RE[6]: Gates and now Allchin"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

In your dreams.

Did I hit a raw nerve? whilst you're whining there, why don't you address the terrible multi-tasking in regards to my wireless connection screeching to a halt when ripping a music cd.

I know what 'dearth' means. The difficulty with you is not understanding your middle-school vocabulary, it's with figuring out what planet you're observing when you make these bananas claims.

So instead of addressing the issue at hand, you verbally abuse me.

How do you know they haven't, O Omniscient One? What if they refuse (or are paid off by Microsoft, like Corel)? It takes two to Tango.

They've already said that they're not going to negotiate with companies; Sun has already said that as well, they'd sooner sit on a pile of money than actively going out and getting third parties on board.

I seriously question your claim that over 50% of computers sold to the public are DIY jobs. I would also seriously question any claim you might make that (a) it's easy to get a laptop supplied without Windows or (b) a significant proportion of those are DIY jobs.

Who said "DIY jobs"? they're local computer stores, non-multinationals; in New Zealand we have 100s of these little stores selling assembled computers with their own logo's attached to the box.

Laptops, you can actually buy a laptop kit, IIRC ASUS sell it along with an LCD screen; the assembler can choose the board from ASUS and customise the components like hard disk and memory - then attach their own brand to the machine.

It would be nice if, for once, one of you Windows-worshipping Linux-doubting Thomases would actually specify at least one of these nebulous "problems" with Linux.

Where is Creative Suite, where is MYOB, where is Quicken, where is a Microsoft Office equal - not equivilant, but EQUAL in features.

Oh, and btw I'm posting to you on my ubuntu laptop.

Do you actually know what is involved with creating software? Is it hard to understand that "the problems with Wine" are because Windows is closed source with (allegedly) secret API's and therefore there is NO information "out in the wild" which would help to alleviate these problems. If Wine isn't perfect, it's amazing it works as well as it does.

Bull; Adobe could work with Wine, and when there is an error Adobe can say, "hey, there is a problem with how you've implemented that particular API; the way which we've used it in our application, it expects zyx result when executed".

Adobe know how they've used a particular API call, Wine need to know how they used that particular API in their application, so why don't the two team up and ensure the API is implemented so that Adobe applications work flawlessly; replace Adobe with any other company if you want.

Great! Let's turn one of the foremost free software packages into a carrot for the stick of proprietary software!!!

Pardon? selling clipart, fonts and templates to fundraise money to future development - you consider that evil and wrong? you consider the very idea of trying to bring in more money to improve a opensource project as a terrible move? I'd have to say, thats news to me, as an end user, I would have thought that more money for opensource applications could improve the said application for end users, but I guess I'm wrong.

Don't you people actually understand that FOSS users will PAY for software that is worth their time WITHOUT all your proprietary penis extensions?

Who said anything about 'penis extensions'? could you please refrain from that sort of immature rhetoric; the idea of selling clipart, fonts and template then the funds being used to further the development of the said project is what I would hardly call 'proprietary penis extensions'.

Edited 2007-02-02 01:10

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