Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 1st Feb 2007 14:41 UTC, submitted by Oliver
FreeBSD "Linux has a large amount of device drivers for hardware not supported on FreeBSD, especially USB devices. Not rarely, such drivers have been written based on information derived by protocol sniffing, reverse engineering and the like. This makes the code highly undocumented, and renders the porting effort extremely error prone. To help with this task, I decided to start working on an emulation layer that would let us recompile the linux source code on FreeBSD, and provide a sufficiently complete emulation of the kernel APIs so that device drivers (or at least certain classes) could be used without modifications to their source code."
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RE[6]: Miss-information
by Moulinneuf on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 13:01 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Miss-information"
Moulinneuf
Member since:
2005-07-06

Ok , so your telling me that in those words : "You are allowed to close the code and switch its license at your own free will is granted by the BSD " , is part of the bsd , no , sorry , they ( those exact word ) dont exist. Your granting yourself right that are not given by the BSD protection clause.

Im from CANADA ...

If BSD where primarely capitalist , paying to use it the most money possible would be its primary goal. Its primary goal is *Usage*. Witch is defeated by the special right some people have granted themself by closing there derivative and switching license , two actions that are not covered or dare I say permited under the BSD's.

"Isn't this what capitalists want?"

No , all capitalist care about is making the most money , you can have 5% market share but if people pay more and you make more money then the rest of the other people making up that 95% market share the capitalist want that.

"And about switching to other licenses: That's not true. "

Look if its not true then port the BSD based software and driver inside Apple and Microsoft and other closed system to all the BSD ... Denying reality lead you nowhere.

"I think I don't understand you."

No , I know your beeing decptive , about your undertsanding.

"In science, in academia, you're usually locked in "

No in true science and true academia your not locked in. Now Science and academia have become more commercial this days , but its not really a good thing.

"Maybe it seems to you to be this way. Maybe because english is my third foreign language and it surely is not your native language. It's hard to figure out what you want to tell exactly, so maybe I misunderstood you."

No , language is not the problem and you certainly look like you mastered it enough to grasp what I am talking about.

"I have to admit that I don't get your points because you don't elaborate at them in a way that it's clear to understand."

No I elaborate , you just decided that what I say is wrong and false. witch is not the case at all. You take the good side of BSD only , where I speak of its bad side , witch you have decided dont exist and is false.

"What's okay then?"

The GPL.

"And why is BSD used?"

Because it exists ...

If BSD is the best why do you change license to something else ?

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[7]: Miss-information
by Doc Pain on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 14:38 in reply to "RE[6]: Miss-information"
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

"Ok , so your telling me that in those words : "You are allowed to close the code and switch its license at your own free will is granted by the BSD " , is part of the bsd , no , sorry , they ( those exact word ) dont exist. Your granting yourself right that are not given by the BSD protection clause."

Okay, maybe it's boring, but let me cite from the license file src/COPYRIGHT,v 1.5 2003/12/31 again:

Copyright (C) 1992-2004 The FreeBSD Project. All rights reserved.

Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions
are met:
[...]
2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.


This states 1st that BSD itself is copyrighted by "The FreeBSD Project" and 2nd that 4.4BSD and 4.4NSD-Lite is copyrithted by "The Regents of the University of California".

So lets first recognize who has the copyright on BSD itself. Then, I highlited the terms under which I may redistribute BSD.

Some more about 4.4BSD as the "mother" of FreeBSD:

3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software must display the following acknowledgement:
This product includes software developed by the University of California, Berkeley and its contributors.
4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.


So I may not close the code of FreeBSD and switch it to another license. I may close my code, I also may release it under any license I want. I also may redistribute something that is derived from the original FreeBSD under another license, but the FreeBSD parts stay under BSDL. Example: DragonflyBSD.

"Im from CANADA ..."

Aha.

"If BSD where primarely capitalist , [...]"

I didn't say they were.

"[...] paying to use it the most money possible would be its primary goal. Its primary goal is *Usage*."

Yes, that's correct.

"Witch is defeated by the special right some people have granted themself by closing there derivative and switching license , two actions that are not covered or dare I say permited under the BSD's."

If I developed such a derivative, customers don't pay me for FreeBSD. They pay me for the programs I've written (that run on FreeBSD). Surely you know there are Linux distributions that are commercial. You pay for preconfiguration, documentation and support. Same here. This gets usage share as well. You could even say market share, but that's not true at all because it's not FreeBSD's share, it's effectively mine.

"No , all capitalist care about is making the most money , you can have 5% market share but if people pay more and you make more money then the rest of the other people making up that 95% market share the capitalist want that."

I'm not a capitalist and I don't like them much. :-)

"Look if its not true then port the BSD based software and driver inside Apple and Microsoft and other closed system to all the BSD ... Denying reality lead you nowhere."

I repeat: I may not switch BSD's license. I may switch my license. I may not switch anyone else's license.

For the Apple based software: If they are free (under GPL or BSDL) I could to this. But usually they're not, so I can't. On the other hand, parts of MacOS X are derived from FreeBSD, and Apple sells its OS without opening the sources. The parts that are used are still BSDL, the rest is not.

"No in true science and true academia your not locked in. Now Science and academia have become more commercial this days , but its not really a good thing."

I agree.

"No , language is not the problem and you certainly look like you mastered it enough to grasp what I am talking about."

In some cases I really don't. Don't claim something you can't prove. :-)

"No I elaborate , you just decided that what I say is wrong and false."

No, I don't. I usually try to give hints and proofs to what I'm saying. You don't.

"You take the good side of BSD only , where I speak of its bad side , witch you have decided dont exist and is false."

Then, please be so kind and say explicitely: What are you complaining about? What's bad about the BSDL and BSD itself?

''"What's okay then?"

The GPL.''


As far as I know, the GPL does not allow me to use GPL code in a commercial project. If I derive something from a GPLed program, I have to set my program under the GPL, too. "Transitivity" was mentioned in this discussion, which is more fitting than "viral" (a term that should be avoided). If my program is GPL, I have to give out the source code for anybody else to use. The BSDL does not force me to do this with my source.

''"And why is BSD used?"

Because it exists ...''


Atomic bombs exist, too. Why aren't they used right now?

"If BSD is the best why do you change license to something else ?"

Everything for it's respective purpose.

If I develop something that would be useful for others, I would share it using the BSDL so that others can take advantage from it. But when I develop a special solution for clinical psychology and client data management, I'm sure nobody else would be interested in it. So I hope (!) I'll have the time and attitude to create a product that someone will pay money for. To be honest... I could imagine to free the project if there are enough customers interested in it, so they could download and install the software for free and get the support for a fee... we'll see in the distant future...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: Miss-information
by Moulinneuf on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 15:23 in reply to "RE[7]: Miss-information"
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

I read your post and again I have to ask what this as to do with the bad effect of BSD .. your not adressing or touching on them and are avoiding discussing them and changing the subject ( my point ) all the time to something else.

Now I agree your 100% right , We need to make BSD illegal for people like you to stop using it. Because your not willing to give it up otherwise , so dont mind me will I try to do exactly that , until then I will also advocate people with inteligence not use it.

I dont believe your honest or really interested in this discussion and frankly your not making any sense for me , so I decided to agree with you that I was right and you wrong but that you wont admit it and decided to move on to something else. Sorry.

Have a nice day ;-)

Reply Parent Score: 1