Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 17th Feb 2007 18:59 UTC, submitted by elsewhere
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y "Some bad blood between Linus Torvalds and GNOME developers is flaring up again. Previously, Torvalds has said that Linux users should switch to KDE instead of GNOME because of the GNOME team's 'users are idiots' mentality. Now he has 'put his money where his mouth is' by submitting patches to GNOME in order to have it behave as he likes. This week, on the Linux Foundation's (formerly OSDL) Desktop Architects mailing list, the two sides are going mano a mano." Can I interest you in a pair of these and these?
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RE[2]: Linus != Usabilty Expert
by eelco on Sat 17th Feb 2007 21:02 UTC in reply to "RE: Linus != Usabilty Expert"
Member since:

Look at the Beryl Settings Manager to see what happens if all options the power users can think of get a place in the configuration screen.

I don't know what it is exactly that Thorvalds has submitted, but it seems he wanted a setting that is quite rare. In that case, i wouldn't mind if the patches don't get accepted. But if they are, then i hope the Gnome-devs will stand firm, and not add this to a mainstream configuration settings window. Use gTweakUI.

Reply Parent Score: 5

dylansmrjones Member since:

Beryl Settings Manager is not Gnome. Nor is BSM a typical application for a Power User. And gTweakUI is absolutely no better - a true disaster.

The patches from Linus are a little bunch of useful and quite common features available everywhere - but in Gnome (and to some extent also Windows). They are not going to cripple the wonderfully nice and simple layout of Gnome applications.

The Beryl Settings Manager doesn't comply with the Gnome HIG (and that's the problem), but it is perfectly possible to have "advanced" options and still follow the Gnome HIG.

Epiphany is an example of a Gnome application which has been modified to solve some of the problems the excessive feature removal has created. It now has an equivalent of the "Advanced Options"-button in its preferences.

If Gnome should only contain the options the mythical "Average User" could understand, there would be no Administration "panel" - no GUI for starting/stopping services, no panel for Sound Options (Average Joe doesn't understand ALSA/ESD/OSS) and so on.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: Linus != Usabilty Expert
by eelco on Sat 17th Feb 2007 23:15 in reply to "RE[3]: Linus != Usabilty Expert"
eelco Member since:

I did say BSM is part of Gnome, but it is an application for tweaking settings. Probably it grew out of a debug application, which made it possible to test all settings. But it *is* brought as the settings application, and if you call gTweakUI a disaster, then BSM should be the end of the world.

Anyway, i don't mind an advanced options tab or whatever. But i do mind the assumption that if anyone thinks Gnome lacks an option, the option should be added. No, the option should be considered, and maybe, if it adds generally useful functionality, it should be added.

As for the sound back-end; indeed, the average user doesn't understand it, nor should he. The problem isn't that there is no option to choose either one of these, the problem is there are more of these. While that is (very) good for the development of open source, it is not that good for the end user. So in general, i would expect the dekstop or the distro to have made a sound choice, so the end user doesn't need to know about it.
For specialist requirements, there should be specialist applications, outside the desktop environments portfolio.

Reply Parent Score: 1