Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 17th Feb 2007 18:45 UTC, submitted by GhePeU
X11, Window Managers David Reveman writes: "I'd like to get all of you updated on the compiz related things discussed at the X developer conference that was held last week. My talk was mainly focused on 'what's next' and how to get desktop compositing in X to the next level." He also discussed the fork: "I had the chance to talk to Quinn Storm from the beryl project during xdevconf. I would have hoped that the current situation with beryl could be improved but it seems like Quinn at least isn't interested in that. However, after talking to Quinn it's very clear to me that the fork was partially motivated by assumptions that were wrong."
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RE: sour grapes?
by butters on Sun 18th Feb 2007 03:32 UTC in reply to "sour grapes?"
butters
Member since:
2005-07-08

All the stuff he's said concerning Beryl seems to be rather embittered. I think just about everyone in the community realizes at this point that Beryl has been making improvements in leaps and bounds.

The only thing that can derail the free software desktop's continued downhill battle is short-sightedness of this sort. Hacks are for getting projects off the ground and people involved. Once a project reaches the state where people are blathering about it on OSNews, hacks should be out of the question. Recently Ubuntu pulled composited window management out of Feisty. Why? Because too many hacks make it too unreliable for most people.

I appreciate Quinn's contribution with Beryl. It got a lot of people interested in desktop effects and showed those big desktop OS vendors that we're right on their tails. But Beryl is a demo. It's an overly aggressive showcase of where we'd like to take desktop effects over the next several months. And for this purpose, Beryl has been wildly successful.

However, Beryl's job is becoming less and less important now that we are painfully aware of how much we want those sweet desktop effects. Now we want it on our systems, and we want it to work properly. I'm sure many of you Beryl supporters have gotten it to work more-or-less reliably on your systems, but you're kidding yourself if you honestly believe it's ready for default installations. It's close, but no cigar.

If you're an end-user, by all means, continue using Beryl. It arguably works better than Compiz at this point in time. But you must realize that it is a short-term fix for problems that Compiz will solve correctly in the 6-18 month timeframe. The real development is happening in the Compiz project. The Beryl project offers a fleeting glimpse into the relatively near future--and not much else.

Anyone who knows anything about X development knows that developers like David Reveman, Keith Packard, and Jon Smirl have more talent in their pinky fingers than Quinn Storm and his (not a female, btw) posse have all together. Enough talent to realize how to do things the right way.

I'm sure that there's people involved in the beryl project that will sooner or later realize that they've made a mistake

He's right. When the Compiz project moves forward with their roadmap, there won't be anything to distinguish Beryl save for its shaky foundations.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: sour grapes?
by Yagami on Sun 18th Feb 2007 17:07 in reply to "RE: sour grapes?"
Yagami Member since:
2006-07-15

you are , of course ,right indeed.

the work d.r. is doing is of very importance.

but why is it a mistake beryl ?

people should do what they want ! they want to do beryl , and its working bery well for them.
in contrast , D.R. is doing background work, but foreground work ( compiz ) sucks big time.

to me , neither compiz nor beryl matter .... the only thing that matters is D. R. work on Xorg.

why people forget that beryl dev's are doing it for fun , to learn new stuf... they are people , individuals.if they are happy , what is the problem ?

beryl is also doing very important stuff... they are testing and making important usuability tests. other desktops ( as kde / gnome / compiz ) can learn from this, and see what users want.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: sour grapes?
by subterrific on Mon 19th Feb 2007 09:52 in reply to "RE: sour grapes?"
subterrific Member since:
2005-07-10

David Reveman, Keith Packard, and Jon Smirl deserve everyones support for the amazing work they have done to enable applications like Beryl. There aren't many people with the skills and vision of these 3, and I think that is where some of the misunderstands come from. It is apparent that David would rather have people help him on long term solutions than implement short term patches like EXA and Beryl. However, it is difficult for new people to jump into projects like Compiz, Xgl, Cario, glitz, Xorg, etc that often don't produce visual results to users for years. Beryl might be the stepping stone new developers need to get involved with some of these long term projects and they need to be provided with helpful mentoring, not treated as outcasts. I believe that is what David is trying to say, but he comes off as a little defensive. I appreciate the work being done by both groups and I hope they work together in the future.

Reply Parent Score: 2