Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 21st Feb 2007 17:00 UTC, submitted by Darkelve
Fedora Core The following letter was received from Eric S. Raymond, who has sent it to a number of Linux-related publications and mailing lists. It is presented verbatim. "After thirteen years as a loyal Red Hat and Fedora user, I reached my limit today, when an attempt to upgrade one package pitched me into a four-hour marathon of dependency chasing, at the end of which an attempt to get around a trivial file conflict rendered my system unusable."
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Does anyone care?
by jcgf on Wed 21st Feb 2007 17:24 UTC
jcgf
Member since:
2005-11-14

Seriously, why does it matter what distro he uses?
Check this out from his wikepedia entry: Raymond identifies himself religiously as a neopagan, and is an initiate witch and coven leader. I don't trust anyone who believes in witches and fairy tales to tell me anything about computers. Particularly those that also just talk and don't code.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Does anyone care?
by evilmegaman on Wed 21st Feb 2007 17:25 in reply to "Does anyone care?"
evilmegaman Member since:
2005-09-20

You hit the nail on the head, I was a little to scared to be that blunt about it. But you're right. who cares?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Does anyone care?
by backdoc on Wed 21st Feb 2007 17:29 in reply to "Does anyone care?"
backdoc Member since:
2006-01-14

Damn. That's just scary. Thanks for the "heads up".

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Does anyone care?
by SolarCatcher on Wed 21st Feb 2007 17:52 in reply to "Does anyone care?"
SolarCatcher Member since:
2006-07-07

Yes, ESR is a weird person. And I totally disagree with him on fireguns (he call's himself a "gun nut"). But some of his texts are actually very good, see the for example "A Brief History of Hackerdom" in O'Reillys open book "Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source Revolution", downloadable from http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/toc.html

And to be fair: He does not talk only - he has contributed code as well, see http://www.catb.org/~esr/software.html

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Does anyone care?
by sbergman27 on Wed 21st Feb 2007 18:15 in reply to "RE: Does anyone care?"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

"""
And to be fair: He does not talk only - he has contributed code as well
"""

Contributed? He waltzes in, declares himself more experienced than the young dunderheads in charge, and starts trying to force code down the project's throat.

This is best demonstrated by doing a postmortem of those places where he has failed.

Search LKML for CLM2.

Watch how he sweeps in.

Watch how he condescends to the other, lesser, kernel hackers.

Watch how, in desperation, he does an end run around the normal process and tries to lobby Linus Torvalds in private.

And watch as his ill-conceived project, and he himself, is ejected from kernel development.

I watched the whole thing.

One day, I even plan to paint a representation:

"Eric Raymond's Expulsion From Paradise"

I'm not a great artist. So don't expect too much.

The Sistine Chapel's reputation is probably safe for now.

But OSS has grown far past the point where ESR is a major player.

If only he could grok that.

Edited 2007-02-21 18:18

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Does anyone care?
by nicholas on Wed 21st Feb 2007 18:06 in reply to "Does anyone care?"
nicholas Member since:
2005-07-07

"Yes, ESR is a weird person. And I totally disagree with him on fireguns (he call's himself a "gun nut")"
------------

Guns don't kill people rappers do. ;-)

Neopagan? ROFL

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Does anyone care?
by rajj on Wed 21st Feb 2007 18:11 in reply to "Does anyone care?"
rajj Member since:
2005-07-06

And yet you probably believe in an invisible man in the clouds, people with wings and another man with horns. Christianity is no less absurd than paganism.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Does anyone care?
by brewmastre on Wed 21st Feb 2007 18:33 in reply to "RE: Does anyone care?"
brewmastre Member since:
2006-08-01

"And yet you probably believe in an invisible man in the clouds, people with wings and another man with horns. Christianity is no less absurd than paganism."

Thank you! Besides, why should ones religious preference dictate his worth as it relates to computers.
Another thing: I'd rather listen to someone who is involved in what the majority of the world consider to be weird rather than a bunch of people who do nothing but recite the same old tired scriptures like mindless drones.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Does anyone care?
by andrewg on Wed 21st Feb 2007 18:54 in reply to "RE: Does anyone care?"
andrewg Member since:
2005-07-06

And yet christianity does not have an invisible man in the clouds, people with wings or another man with horns.

Of course it has a man swallowed by a large fish who gets spat out and lives , a donkey that rebukes, etc. But those are hardly central.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Does anyone care?
by dylansmrjones on Wed 21st Feb 2007 19:03 in reply to "RE: Does anyone care?"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

The man with the horns? I believe I've seen here: http://www.freebsd.org/

He does exist ;)

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Does anyone care?
by dagw on Wed 21st Feb 2007 22:53 in reply to "RE: Does anyone care?"
dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

Neither I nor any of the Christians I know believe in any of those things. You might want to read up a bit before spouting nonsense.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Does anyone care?
by cmost on Wed 21st Feb 2007 20:34 in reply to "Does anyone care?"
cmost Member since:
2006-07-16

"I don't trust anyone who believes in witches and fairy tales to tell me anything about computers."

What's scary is the number of people who believe in some all-powerful invisible entity that lives in a golden city in the sky surrounded by the souls of every single person in existence who died and a host of other winged people. Oh wait...a lot of the people who died went to that other fiery place because he did something like really satanic like marry someone of the same sex or rip up a picture of the pope on television.

Judgemental people with no common sense make me sick.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Does anyone care?
by ThawkTH on Thu 22nd Feb 2007 13:30 in reply to "RE: Does anyone care?"
ThawkTH Member since:
2005-07-06

There must be a way to mod shockingly insightful comments past +5, right?

No?

Well, there should be...

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Does anyone care?
by manix on Wed 21st Feb 2007 22:14 in reply to "Does anyone care?"
manix Member since:
2006-05-13

Neo pagans are more open minded than most Christian, Muslims or *** zealots. They don't try to convert the whole world either. They are more respectfull of life and they don't wage religious wars, murder each other about interpretations of the Bible or the Koran. They even don't even wage wars in Iraq because they think God told them to do so....

In other words, don't worry too much about his religious backgroud.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Does anyone care?
by h3rman on Thu 22nd Feb 2007 10:07 in reply to "RE[2]: Does anyone care?"
h3rman Member since:
2006-08-09

Neo pagans (...) don't even wage wars in Iraq because they think God told them to do so....

Who wage wars in Iraq because God told them so, then?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Does anyone care?
by nii_ on Thu 22nd Feb 2007 05:04 in reply to "Does anyone care?"
nii_ Member since:
2005-07-11

"Check this out from his wikepedia entry: Raymond identifies himself religiously as a neopagan, and is an initiate witch and coven leader. I don't trust anyone who believes in witches and fairy tales to tell me anything about computers. Particularly those that also just talk and don't code."

Well, many people have irrational beliefs and superstitions. Some people believe in witches and spirits and magic, some in fairies, some in fictitious almighty gods that created the earth 6000 years ago, some in Jesus' magic tricks, and some Moses' telekinetic powers, and much more.

I only wished everyone could think with step by step reasoning.

Just wait until AI comes along to imitate us...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Does anyone care?
by theTSF on Thu 22nd Feb 2007 12:03 in reply to "Does anyone care?"
theTSF Member since:
2005-09-27

How does this relate to Fedora sucking. If you are going to judge a persons Point of View on Subject A because you disagree with his Point of View on unrelated Subject B. You are being quite stupid. Most people follow some sort of religion. Computers and Operating systems are actually not based in religion, at least most of them. You logic is the same as the people in the middle east. You cant trust that guy because he is not in my religion.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Does anyone care?
by h3rman on Thu 22nd Feb 2007 12:49 in reply to "RE: Does anyone care?"
h3rman Member since:
2006-08-09

You logic is the same as the people in the middle east. You cant trust that guy because he is not in my religion.

In what sense is that particular to the Middle East?
I might mention Northern Ireland, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, India (no that is not the Middle East ;) ), Nigeria, ...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Does anyone care?
by segedunum on Thu 22nd Feb 2007 14:15 in reply to "Does anyone care?"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Check this out from his wikepedia entry: Raymond identifies himself religiously as a neopagan, and is an initiate witch and coven leader. I don't trust anyone who believes in witches and fairy tales to tell me anything about computers.

I know geeks generally don't have an emotional detector installed, but I think it is just possible that that might be a bit of a joke.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Does anyone care?
by Soulbender on Fri 23rd Feb 2007 12:53 in reply to "Does anyone care?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"I don't trust anyone who believes in witches and fairy tales to tell me anything about computers."

I don't trust anyone who believes in wikipedia to tell me anything about, well, anything.

Reply Parent Score: 2