Microsoft Office program manager Brian Jones, whose work has centered around the Open XML document format, now says the so-called format war with OpenDocument is officially over. The winner, he says, is both. Jones made the statement in a blog post over the weekend following the release by Novell of an Open XML translator for OpenOffice. The plug-in enables the free, open source productivity suite to open documents created in the Microsoft format, as well as saving OpenDocument files into Open XML.
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Member since:2005-07-10
God I hope you are never in a position to make any lasting changes, because look out world segedunum is going to make policy based on his own bias.
I think you need to read what you've quoted. The paragraph you are quoting is asking what on Earth the point is of referring to unspecified WordPerfect behaviour from 16 years ago and replicating it, rather than converting it over.
If you convert it, it will never act like the original. So why not support the original specification, which is most definitely defined somewhere. I am sure IBM has the source that they could open, after all they are sitting on the panel.
So what? You get an office suite that can open your older Microsoft Office documents and then 'Save As...' ODF. That has absolutely nothing to do with the new format that you've created, and there's simply no reason for your new format to simply dump every element of the old format into a new one just because it uses XML. In reality, it's still exactly the same format!
Yes but obviously you don't really understand how software is developed. What are the chances that when you open up WordPerfect there is going to be a Save As ODF? What are the chances that when you open up Word6 that there is going to be a Save As ODF? What are the chances that when you open up Word 2000 that there is going to be a Save As ODF? I can quickly answer that as none.
Microsoft Office 2007 is the only one that can do that for most of these files listed. Sure OOo has rudimentary support for these file types, but if you want a direct conversion and keep the formatting you are going to have to use Office 2007. Then what are the chances that in the Microsoft platform that people will have these as ODF compared to OOXML? I bet the number is very close to zero.
You may say this is Microsoft domination, maybe, but it doesn't bode well for ODF, and why support a format that is never going to go anywhere. Thank god there is a Microsoft made plug-in for OOo that reads OOXML, because I run OOo under FreeBSD and my friends regularly safe their documents in Office 2007 and Office 2003 formats.
In the years ahead I hope they continue to save them in the Office 2007 format since I know now that it is totally supported in OOo. Unlike the half supported Microsoft Office documents that are currently supported in OOo.
Member since:2007-03-06
Member since:2005-07-06
God I hope you are never in a position to make any lasting changes, because look out world segedunum is going to make policy based on his own bias.
Dude. We're stuck in world where backwards compatibility is a problem and where ODF came into being largely because of the mess that Microsoft's crap office formats have landed us in.
We live in a world where you can't even go reliably from one version of Office to the very next one without a document not opening properly. Anyone who believes you can simply open every seventeen year old document in the current version of Office is so full of it it isn't even funny. Governments don't want to be in that position, hence the whole open formats thing.
If you convert it, it will never act like the original.
Why not? You create a convertor for a particular format, you look at the elements within it and their behaviour and you convert that into the new format. Hardly rocket science. If something is lacking in the new format then you contribute something to it that will add the required behaviour, rather than slapping hundreds of pointless elements into the new format in the name of backwards compatibility - which you're going to have to continue to handle into the future.
You're talking about the hopeless situation we have today. I'm telling you about the way things should be, which is a large part of the reason why ODF has come about in the first place.
Yes but obviously you don't really understand how software is developed.
Well obviously. *rolls eyes*
What are the chances that when you open up WordPerfect there is going to be a Save As ODF?
Pretty good, considering it supports it.
What are the chances that when you open up Word6 that there is going to be a Save As ODF? What are the chances that when you open up Word 2000 that there is going to be a Save As ODF?
And whose problem is that? For those moving to ODF the only issue is that they're able to open their existing documents in a way that is good enough, make sure no data is lost (presentation is less of an issue) which you can largely do in Open Office and other suites now, and then make sure that their documents will always be support by a multitude of applications with ODF. Problem over. The fact that there isn't ODF support in legacy versions of Microsoft Office is neither here nor there, and is merely a a whinging argument made by Microsoft and OOXML supporters. That's Microsoft's choice.
You may say this is Microsoft domination, maybe, but it doesn't bode well for ODF, and why support a format that is never going to go anywhere.
All you're doing is what Microsoft and OOXML supporters are doing - throwing roadblocks down and telling everyone why something can't be done. "Oh it's too difficult!". All you've admitted there is that Microsoft will never support ODF, and that if we go down Microsoft's road then nothing will change.
Thank god there is a Microsoft made plug-in for OOo that reads OOXML, because I run OOo under FreeBSD and my friends regularly safe their documents in Office 2007 and Office 2003 formats.
Have you actually been reading the comments on this? I sincerely hope that your friends don't create complex OOXML documents, because it is going to be as equally difficult for Open Office as the current binary office formats. Except Open Office now has to support two different versions of the same format with the same problems. Brilliant eh?
In the years ahead I hope they continue to save them in the Office 2007 format since I know now that it is totally supported in OOo.
No you don't. At risk of repeating myself again, I suggest you do some reading as to why. There's been ample points made.
Unlike the half supported Microsoft Office documents that are currently supported in OOo.
They are still going to be partially supported because OOXML is exactly the same as the binary office format - in another form. It still has exactly the same pitfalls and dependencies as the older formats.
Member since:
2005-07-06
Maybe you should know your history before you go blabbing that you know everything.
Never did any such thing.
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/05/0041212
From the article - "so not only must an interoperable OOXML implementation first acquire and reverse-engineer a 14-year old version of Microsoft Word, it must also do the same thing with a 16-year old version of WordPerfect." referring to suppressTopSpacingWP
How you have come to believe that is relevant to what I had written is anyone's guess. Just because Microsoft have some WP elements and behaviour dumped into their own format as a result of some long lost (and now pointless) older support, it doesn't mean that they support WordPerfect today.
I think you need to read what you've quoted. The paragraph you are quoting is asking what on Earth the point is of referring to unspecified WordPerfect behaviour from 16 years ago and replicating it, rather than converting it over. I quite agree.
Also lets not forget - "Possible legacy MS Office rendering compatibility issues are identified using (deprecated) tags: For example, book 4 section 2.15.3.6, autoSpaceLikeWord95, book 4 section 2.15.3.31, lineWrapLikeWord6."
Yer. And? What the hell is that doing in there? It is up to an application to work out what to do with that in terms of converting it to a new format. Additionally, those tags mean nothing simply because their behaviour isn't defined.
I thought ODF was going to be the savior where all these documents could be suddenly read and available to the masses?
No. Whether you use ODF or OOXML, it's the job of these things called office suites to convert the old format into the new. Quite what universe you or Microsoft live in where a new format can automatically convert older formats itself isn't quite clear.
All that you need is a translator to convert it in to OOXML.
Ergo, it isn't backwards compatible with older formats, therefore the Microsoft Office specific elements to OOXML are pointless. All I need is a translator to convert a document to ODF. So what?
In ODF most of these legacy documents are going to have to be totally rewritten to perserve the formatting that was originally available.
No. There's simply no reason why several thousand elements from the older Microsoft Office binary format needed to be dumped into an open format to preserve some form of non-existant backward compatibility. In reality, it's exactly the same format in different packaging with all the same old problems.
It only looks forward and says forget about everything that came before me.
That's because it's a new format.
And forgetting about your past is a luxury that a document format does not have.
Yes it does have that luxury, because it is the applications that do the heavy lifting of conversion, and not the formats. There's simply no reason for a new format to have several thousand elements from an old format dumped, literally, into it from an older binary format in the name of backwards compatibility.
You make the mistake that even Microsoft employees have made, which is to view the format and the application as the same thing. Easy mistake to make I suppose.
The famous saying comes to mind, "those who don't know history or doomed to relive it." or in this case only a bunch of purist evangelical fanatics
I refer you to your first comment above:
Blah, Blah, Blah
Try the Cherry flavor.
because the masses still have documents that are 5+ years old in their original format.
So what? You get an office suite that can open your older Microsoft Office documents and then 'Save As...' ODF. That has absolutely nothing to do with the new format that you've created, and there's simply no reason for your new format to simply dump every element of the old format into a new one just because it uses XML. In reality, it's still exactly the same format!
Mind you, that was the whole point. Microsoft just decided to change the Emperor's clothing just so they could say "Oh, it's XML!"