Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 7th Mar 2007 22:32 UTC, submitted by twenex
KDE The KDE 4 release team started a discussion about a possible release schedule for KDE 4. Of course nothing is set yet but the topic is now hot and some interesting problems and point of views come up. In other but related news Oxygen hit the mirrors, or better, kdelibs.
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RE[3]: jumping the gun?
by smitty on Thu 8th Mar 2007 06:56 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: jumping the gun?"
smitty
Member since:
2005-10-13

If you have an open project but can't talk about it, doesn't that already make it a closed project? Or are you merely upset that Thom brought this to the masses and think that people who care enough should find it on their own?

I'm trying to understand your thinking here...

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: jumping the gun?
by aseigo on Thu 8th Mar 2007 07:07 in reply to "RE[3]: jumping the gun?"
aseigo Member since:
2005-07-06

> have an open project but can't talk about it,
> doesn't that already make it a closed project

great question!

see, the assumption here is that openness is considered without the accompanying concepts of respect and responsibility.

it's sort of like nature and living things in general. just because you can choke a breathing thing to death, doesn't mean you should. it's even more absurd to think you can and then complain about it no longer being alive.

just because a project is conversing in the open doesn't mean that it is right, defensible or long-term sustainable to bring those conversations into venues that are not appropriate.

which is to say, it is time people started realizing that they are part of the process and the system. that their (your) actions do have consequences.

we can certainly take these conversations private. the question is whether you want us to, and whether that's the best thing for you.

what do you think?

if you think it wouldn't be the best thing, then how can you (and those involved in this matter) make sure that doesn't happen?

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: jumping the gun?
by smitty on Thu 8th Mar 2007 07:21 in reply to "RE[4]: jumping the gun?"
smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

see, the assumption here is that openness is considered without the accompanying concepts of respect and responsibility.

OK, I get that. I've even complained about some of Thom's decisions in the past.

we can certainly take these conversations private. the question is whether you want us to, and whether that's the best thing for you.

what do you think?


I definitely do not want these conversations private - but I have to admit that if this hadn't been publicized (I saw if first on linuxtoday.com) as you wish then I would have never known about it. At which point there doesn't really seem to be any point to having the discussion in the open at all. You could always have them in private and then post the discussion later when you don't care if it comes out.

What I'm hearing from you is that you do want some discussions to be private, and if that is the case then you might be better off doing that regardless of the complaining certain people will do.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: jumping the gun?
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 8th Mar 2007 12:05 in reply to "RE[4]: jumping the gun?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

which is to say, it is time people started realizing that they are part of the process and the system. that their (your) actions do have consequences.

The thing is, Aaron, I'm not part of KDE; as far as I can remember at least (who knows what I do when I'm drunk).

I can draw a rather disturbing conclusion from your posts in this thread thus far.

The past years, many Microsoft folk gave expected release dates (whether a precise date or i.e. a month) concerning Windows Vista. None of these were officially announced release dates (i.e. no press releases, no nothing). They were just unofficial estimates. Yet, every technology newssite out there reported these dates. So did we. It wasn't until early November 2006 that Microsoft officially set the release dates [1]-- dates they met, by the way.

Now, according to your logic, we should have never reported on the previously mentioned (by MS employees or representatives) release dates.

Basically, the conclusion I mentioned is this: it seems as if you want newssites to only report on 'official' matters; matters that have been properly announced. Now, that is of course completely ridiculous. It is the job of the journalist to *find* news, whether the involved parties like it or not. KDE4 has been in the making for quite a while now, and, dare I say it, it has even been hyped (I'm ducking for cover right now); of course people are then interested in the first discussion among KDE developers about possible release dates!

Does the fact that OSNews reports on this discussion mess up the process? While I appreciate the influence you attribute to us, I personally don't think it will. Neither do you.

What you are afraid of is that you will not be able to make the release date mentioned in the discussion. This, Aaron, has nothing to do with us. If you can't make the release date, then that's your problem, not ours. Let it slip in a few months, or adjust it now, do whatever you want; but please do not blame the "press" for your own problems and insecurities in meeting the seemingly optimistic release date.

Because, Aaron, if you are confident you can make the October date... What's all the hubbub here about?

[1] http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=16371

Reply Parent Score: 1