Linked by Eugenia Loli-Queru on Tue 20th Mar 2007 01:51 UTC
X11, Window Managers The Beryl project has won a lot of press time so far with its impressive tricks -- even more than its slower-evolving daddy, Compiz. There are several lose ends to Beryl's core engine and incompatibilities with existing applications or technologies. However, something that really put off a lot of people when they try Beryl is its dreadful settings manager.
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I agree
by fz105 on Tue 20th Mar 2007 02:36 UTC
fz105
Member since:
2007-03-20

I like the mockup; its nice and simple.

I'd like to add one thing, I like the new setting manager but i agree it's too involved. It'd be real sweat if it could be assigned to an "Advanced" button to your mockup. What do you think???

One thing I'd disagree with is the 3D cube should not be off by default, this effect is a symbol of the 3D desktop on the Linux box!! It's to Linux 3D desktop as the dock to Mac or the start menu to windows.

The points I strongly agree with are:
1) "Beryl must use Gnome's/KDE's virtual desktop applet's settings regarding workspaces", its nice to know someone said ewhat ive been thinking all along
2) Enable/disable bryl from gnome settings panel
3) Metacity should be the windows decorator by default, no nead for Emerald, this was a very confusing for me starting off...dont get me wrong Emerald has great themes

All in all, good mockup.

RE: I agree
by Eugenia on Tue 20th Mar 2007 03:02 in reply to "I agree"
Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

Thanks for the comment. Unfortunately, "advanced" is not a good idea for any UI. Havoc Pennington blogged about this explained it a few years ago. http://ometer.com/free-software-ui.html

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 1

RE[2]: I agree
by archiesteel on Tue 20th Mar 2007 03:29 in reply to "RE: I agree"
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Unfortunately, "advanced" is not a good idea for any UI.

But what about advanced users?

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 4

RE[2]: I agree
by devurandom on Tue 20th Mar 2007 13:45 in reply to "RE: I agree"
devurandom Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes, but I disagree wholeheartedly with Havoc ideas on UI usability. They are not Gospel, last time I checked. To me, preferences and advanced options are essential (that's probably why I use KDE).

So the question is perfectly legit.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 4

RE[2]: I agree
by emkamau on Tue 20th Mar 2007 15:09 in reply to "RE: I agree"
emkamau Member since:
2007-03-20

Actually at the link you provide, Havoc does not say "advanced" is always bad. He says;

"Advanced tabs must not be used as band-aids or excuses for stupid designs"

But he also says;

"Sometimes there may be a good reason for an Advanced tab or the like "

I think an advanced tab is always essential, particularly for free software. The reason is that you need to segment your users into users who are just users, users who are contributers and users who are developers. Then you need to turn users who are just users into contributers and ultimately developers. To do this you can't hide the internals of your program away from your users. You have to expose a certain amount of the complexity to them. Users have to fiddle, tweak and customize to be drawn into bug fixing, contribution and development. This is not for all users, but the possibility has to be there. Plentiful preferences, just below the surface in an advanced section of the configuration programs is a way to provide this possibility.

The problem with many preferences is not generally the number of preferences, but their organization and exposure to the user. Hiding the advanced preferences is a separate program/tab is a good idea.

Then there is the issue of FOSS culture as opposed to proprietary software culture. In proprietary software there is a clear distinction between users and producers of software and users have no business meddling in the production process. Unless they are invited in, under carefully controlled conditions, by the research department. This leads to an as vs them mentality between users and developers. I think this mentality is alive and well in the Gnome community and it is developing really well. Too bad. In the long run this will not be good for Gnome.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 4

3D Cube
by joecool on Tue 20th Mar 2007 03:05 in reply to "I agree"
joecool Member since:
2006-02-19

Yes, the 3D Cube is awesome and think it should stay on by default. As long as switching has reasonable keystroke combinations, and the switching stays fast, I see no loss in productivity, but only an insanely cool new view.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 3

RE: 3D Cube
by Eugenia on Tue 20th Mar 2007 03:06 in reply to "3D Cube"
Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

Thing is, Beryl requires 50 additional MBs of RAM than a plain 2D X server. The fewer plugins, the better, in terms of RAM.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 1

RE: I agree
by elsewhere on Tue 20th Mar 2007 03:30 in reply to "I agree"
elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

One thing I'd disagree with is the 3D cube should not be off by default, this effect is a symbol of the 3D desktop on the Linux box!! It's to Linux 3D desktop as the dock to Mac or the start menu to windows.

I dumped the cube for the new desktop wall plugin. Personally find it more useable seeing all desktops at once, and dragging windows among them. And it maintains a nicely conservative yet still slick bling factor that doesn't get dismissed as toyish when I use it at work.

The cube is just so, you know, 2006. ;)

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 5

RE: I agree
by Havin_it on Wed 21st Mar 2007 16:58 in reply to "I agree"
Havin_it Member since:
2006-03-10

1) Agree strongly. Riding rough-shod over existing WMs' methods is a sure recipe for chaos, as I've seen with both beryl and compiz (which I actually use).

2) Substitute KControl and I agree with you ;)

3) Substitute KWin ... well, lol @me but I prefer Metacity's themes, so I quite agree. Let's work *with* the WinDecos, not against them!

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 1