Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 23rd Mar 2007 17:52 UTC, submitted by alexorizor
Zeta Bernd Korz has announced that the Zeta development team and Magnussoft are parting ways [German]. The team and Bernd will continue to develop Zeta, and the service pack (Zeta v1.51) will still be released in the coming weeks.
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RE[4]: Haha
by ormandj on Fri 23rd Mar 2007 21:38 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Haha"
ormandj
Member since:
2005-10-09

Those developers ought to reconsider what project they work on. Yes, I'm sure there are some talented people there, but their morality should "kick in" and they should quit working for a person/company that has such questionable ethics. My comment did not address people who are not currently involved with Zeta, so "past" developers are not being insulting/slammed in any way.

Here's a (VERY) exaggerated example of the same kind of thing. There were LOTS of smart/good Nazis. Most of them were ignorant of what was really going on. However, they all had a duty (once they realized the evilness) to stop doing what they were doing. Unfortunately, they did not, hence we had a war - in which many (innocent) died and a country was reduced to shambles, all needlessly.

Developers working under Bernd can claim "ignorance" to a point, but if they don't know by now how terribly things have been run and the kind of ethically questionable ways Zeta has been pushed, not to mention the questionable legality of the whole operation - then they must be living under a rock. They *should* know better, and they *should* stop dealing with such a terribly run organization/person.

As I said, I'm sure there are bright folks doing development for Zeta. They ought to find a good company to work for (doing whatever), get better paying/far more stable jobs, and work with Haiku (as it's quite OBVIOUSLY the future direction of BeOS - not Zeta.) Obviously I am not in a position to tell them what to do - but I am in a position to judge them based on MY moral values/ethical standards, based on what they choose to do. Continuing to work for Bernd/participate in his scams/etc puts them in the "poopoo" bin as far as I'm concerned.

You are, of course, free to believe as you like. Just as I am.

Edited 2007-03-23 21:39

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Haha
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 23rd Mar 2007 21:43 in reply to "RE[4]: Haha"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Let me make VERY clear that on the OSNews comments' sections, absolutely NO comparison will EVER be drawn between person/company/product xyz and the Nazis/3e Reich, or whatever. This is OUT OF LINE, no matter how innocent the comparison may be. End of story.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Haha
by ormandj on Fri 23rd Mar 2007 23:42 in reply to "RE[5]: Haha"
ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

Let me make VERY clear that on the OSNews comments' sections, absolutely NO comparison will EVER be drawn between person/company/product xyz and the Nazis/3e Reich, or whatever. This is OUT OF LINE, no matter how innocent the comparison may be. End of story.

History teaches lessons quite well. You have your opinions, I have mine. I don't "ignore" history, and when it parallels something in current times, I point it out. I used a purposefully extreme example in an attempt to highlight exactly what I intended to portray, and I'm *quite* sure it was clear to all who read it prior to the down-moderation storm.

So, why don't you define exactly what form of censorship you'd like to enforce here, and what parts of history are off limits and which are not? I'd like to be clear on what I am permitted to refer to and what I am not permitted to refer to in the future.
---

Now, on to the people claiming "innocent until proven guilty." That's true, in a COURT OF LAW. I am a consumer, he has a product. He has to prove to ME that I should spend my hard-earned money on HIS product. This isn't a question of innocence or guilt.

The guy won't come out and say he has legal rights to the source code for goodness sake. There is NO logic/business reasoning for not coming out and saying he has legal rights to the source, UNLESS he does not - or he is operating outside the bounds of his license agreement and doesn't want people to know it. Bernd DOES need to come out and prove to us (the consumers) his legitimacy. We're not trying him, there is no such thing as innocent until guilty in the business world.

You still wonder why yT failed? You wonder why Zeta is going nowhere? Look no further than Bernd and his insane business practices. Who knows what went on with Magnus, I'm sure some people have some interesting stories to tell.

So, since Zeta is so awesome, Bernd is so awesome, and the operation is so awesome, why don't one of the people involved with Zeta step forward and finally tell us they have full legal rights to the full source code of BeOS. Guess what? Nobody ever will. Goodbye, Zeta! Hello, Haiku!

I only hope the good people who've done work on Zeta figure out what a crazy operation they are involved with and move their talent to Haiku, a legal and forward-thinking project - that isn't out to screw the public, and isn't run by somebody with the business sense of roadkill.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[6]: Haha
by melkor on Sat 24th Mar 2007 00:02 in reply to "RE[5]: Haha"
melkor Member since:
2006-12-16

So you are allowed to dictate what can and can't be said in a nazi style yes? Hardly seems democratic to me Mr Holwerda. In some countries in Europe it might be illegal to mention the word Nazi or Third Reich, but I believe this website is not hosted in those countries, and other countries still allow certain levels of civil liberties. You would do well to allow them. I had very little respect for you prior to the above comment, I now have no respect for you whatsoever. I don't care if I get modded down for this, it needs to be said. If you don't like my freedom of speech, tough shit.

Dave

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Haha
by Vibe on Fri 23rd Mar 2007 21:54 in reply to "RE[4]: Haha"
Vibe Member since:
2007-03-12

I've got some more questions. Bernd slid away with a piece of paper that granted some "rights" he's been very vague to define, and the provenance of the source hasn't been confirmed. Not only that, but Yellowtab went down after swallowing several million Euros. What is the exact wording of the contract, where did the source come from, and where did the Yellowtab money go?

OS News is ways out of line with the reality of copyright law. Copyright explicity forbids any derived work (a new creation) from being distributed by a third party. While I'm sympathetic to BeOS Max, it is illegal. No grey areas. No fudging. Period.

On these issues OS News journalistic and legal integrity is hazy, and no amount of shouting from Thom or fanboy style reportage can hide that. In any case, as a potential customer, I have my doubts about Zeta's legitimacy and the owners ability to manage Zeta in a sound way that inspires personal or business confidence. Once that confidence is broken it's up to Zeta to prove itself. Where's the proof?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Haha
by Kancept on Mon 26th Mar 2007 22:35 in reply to "RE[5]: Haha"
Kancept Member since:
2006-01-09

There once was a party named "Yollo" that invested in them early on. This was right after the famed BeOS NG, and the beginning of the yT period. IIRC Yollo got some of the profits, and IP made from it for a few years thereafter- even contributing code to them. Dunno how it all went down, and noone could find said company, so it seemed like a good shill. It wasn't listed at the German business registry thingy.

Bernd has a small castle now he is remodeliing, as found on his blog. I'm guessing that's where the money went. That and that butt-ugly car with Spliny the yT mosquito all over it. Oh yeah, that's the second yT car, btw.

http://www.berndsworld.com/

I personally hope they stop. Just pack it up and stop.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Haha
by StephenBeDoper on Sat 24th Mar 2007 04:34 in reply to "RE[4]: Haha"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Those developers ought to reconsider what project they work on. Yes, I'm sure there are some talented people there, but their morality should "kick in" and they should quit working for a person/company that has such questionable ethics.

Why would a ZETA developer go to his/herself "Oh no, ormandj does not approve! Time for change of employer." I'm hardly the world's largest ZETA fan, but I don't see the point of crapping on them if you have nothing to say beyond vague indictments-by-implication.

Here's a (VERY) exaggerated example of the same kind of thing. There were LOTS of smart/good Nazis.

...what the EFF?

I'm going to display some restraint and not comment on the above quote, or the rest of your post, other than to mention that the phrase "jaw-droppingly sophomoric" comes to mind. And that's the about mildest characterization I could make.

If ever there were a situation where it was justified to invoke "Godwin's Law"...

Reply Parent Score: 3