Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 4th Apr 2007 21:29 UTC
Zeta A lot of things have happened in the past few days concerning Zeta, BeOS, and Haiku. In order to create some order in the chaos, Eugenia and I have created a rough timeline of what happened the past 6-7 years. Read on for the timeline and some more thoughts on the matter. Update: Magnusoft ceases distribution of Zeta. Update II: Access answered the questions posed in the article.
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RE: some infos
by tonestone57 on Sat 7th Apr 2007 22:11 UTC in reply to "some infos"
Member since:

I found yours & looncraz's posts interesting and insightful, but in the end it comes down to the following:

Bernd & Access have to resolve this legal issue themselves, because I (and 10 other people may think) Access is right and you (and 10 other people may think) Bernd is right, but the truth is:

#1 Bernd & Access have to agree (either Zeta is legal or illegal); this will resolve it one way or another. Bernd will have to provide his proof to Access for this OR
#2 Access takes Bernd to court, verdict rendered and there is a resolution OR
#3 Access accuses Bernd & Bernd says he is within his rights (this is never resolved & legal status of Zeta remains questionable). This is where we are at now.

I am hoping for #1 above, but I feel very sure that it will be #3.

Us arguing who was in the right does not matter, because either A) Access has to see original documentation proving Zeta was legal or B) Access has to prove, in court, that Zeta was illegal. Else, we are stuck with #3 above.

The details you, Rafael, and Looncraz provide are good, but do you have any *original* documentation (from Be Inc or Palm) to support any of what you wrote? Otherwise it is just hearsay ( and basically an unverified story ).

I have enjoyed Zeta and so have many other users. I am a little upset because Access was left out ( no compensation or deal worked out for them ) since its their product and also that Magnussoft got caught up in this too ( paid development costs & were not able to sell Zeta to make any money off it ). Though it does not matter, but it makes me wonder if Palm ever tried stopping Bernd (that is for Palm to answer).

I hope this can be resolved in 30 days or less, but I truly believe the outcome will be #3 ( somewhat unfortunate ).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: some infos
by Rafael on Sat 7th Apr 2007 22:36 in reply to "RE: some infos"
Rafael Member since:

@tonestone57 and also to Mr. Schlesinger

I do not say that Bernd is right, I only try to challenge it, because i cannot proof it, i don't have any *original* documentation, most of the information i have is hearsay, but on other hand i am also sure that ACCESS, if they have all the things from Palm/PalmSource, that they also will not release any correspondence which they had with Mr. Korz and with Yellowtab (Magnussoft is a seperat topic)

as i can remember also the beunited team tried to get in contact with Palm, and they had some correspondence but where not able to get a license

why i am also so distrustful is if Palm/PlamSource and then also ACCESS known that ZETA was illegal why didn't they inform the community or the customers,
yt sold really a lot, so why should they let people more than seven years in ignorance?

Edited 2007-04-07 22:41

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: some infos
by tonestone57 on Sun 8th Apr 2007 00:55 in reply to "RE[2]: some infos"
tonestone57 Member since:

It is hard to say what happened between Palm & yT. And Lefty is relying on any written documentation obtained from Palm. Verbal agreements hold no weight, everything has to be done through writing to be enforceable. If Bernd has signed letters, faxes or documentation from Executive / Senior Official(s) of Palm then that may help him too.

I believe Access only acquired BeOS around 12 to 18 months ago and were writing "cease & desist" letters to Bernd ( a couple were sent ). If I was the CEO of a company and got one of those letters, I would try to clear it up with the sending company right away ( but if Bernd feared the outcome was that Access would stop him from continuing in business, making & selling Zeta, then he would ignore the letters and continue on as business as usual. If you are making money, do you want someone to stop you? ). If all Access did was send letters, then why should Bernd be afraid? So, he continued on running the business.

Access is focused on Linux ( just like every other company out there; Linux is the new craze ). BeOS is Access' property since they paid for it, but is put in the vault (not used by them and they have little interest in doing anything with BeOS ). Access makes $0 ( nothing ) off of BeOS. Going after yT takes time, money and effort ( and maybe Access knew they would take a loss, because 12 to 18 months ago when Access bought BeOS, yT goes / was bankrupt ). So, hiring lawyer and going to court in Germany is not worthwhile to them, but they still do not want someone else to profit off their IP ( I am surprised they did not make an official post or press release or even contact Magnussoft sooner, but hey, maybe they thought Bernd would do the right thing and talk to them? Maybe they hoped the letters would work? Maybe they wanted to clear it up first with Bernd before taking it any further? ). Access might have even been willing to negotiate a license agreement had Bernd responded to the first letter. Corporations & companies are in business to make money so maybe something could have been worked out. But now it has gone too far and I do not think they would want to do any business with Bernd. Also, Access is mostly interested in keeping BeOS code closed sourced ( main goal ) ( because of 3rd party NDA & software in BeOS & maybe other reasons too ), but they may also ask or go after Bernd for damages.

As for Palm, I do not have a clue why they let Zeta slide. Maybe Bernd had close ties to Palm (with former BE CEO)? Or maybe Palm did not care ( thought BeOS not profitable )? For all I know, Bernd could have been paying off people at Palm? Bernd & whoever he kept in contact with at Palm would know the real reasons and relationship between yT & Palm.

I am surprised that Palm did not go after yT either, because lots of money was made in the first two years of operation. I believe Bernd said over 100,000 users @ $100 Euro each = $10,000,000 Euro (Minimum Sales Revenue). Every about 6 months a new Zeta version was released & assuming that devlopment cost was $500,000 Euro per year (you do the math).

The thing of it is that Access nor Palm have to explain why they did not go after Bernd sooner or try harder to stop him. Or even give any of their reasons or any justification. All that matters today is that Access owns BeOS and wants Bernd to prove his right to produce and distribute Zeta. That is all. And is very doubtful Bernd can prove this right, so Zeta will end up illegal or legal status will be questionable, in either case, Magnussoft is done selling Zeta.

Edited 2007-04-08 01:00

Reply Parent Score: 1