Linked by Eugenia Loli on Thu 12th Apr 2007 00:49 UTC, submitted by Dan Warne
Windows Computer makers have been told they'll no longer be able to get Windows XP OEM by the end of this year, despite strong ongoing demand for the OS. Analysts and computer makers are wondering if the move is premature given Vista's ongoing performance and compatibility issues. Dell recently said it would reintroduce XP on a range of machines due to customer demand but Microsoft will only allow this until the end of the year.
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RE[5]: My guess...
by cjcox on Thu 12th Apr 2007 23:02 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: My guess..."
cjcox
Member since:
2006-12-21

Granted DirectX owns the gaming industry, BUT only because of Windows... and NO other reason. As Microsoft keeps pushing people away, another platform will take hold. It's just a matter of time. And.. it might be a DirectX variant... who knows.

C is still more popular than C++ and certainly Java. If it's a lines of code contest, then COBOL wins hands down... sorry, but 2nd place isn't even in the same ballpark. I don't think you'll see too much embedded development done in anything "higher" than C. C isn't even close to being "downright archaic" or "virtually obsolete". I don't like C++ either (personally). Microsoft has done the most to keep that puppy alive.

Mono, which is a portable superset of .Net, may well be the better .Net. Don't confuse .Net with .Net plus Microsoft proprietary closed solns. .Net on Linux is reality TODAY and is most popular with WINDOWS users.... believe it or not.

Microsoft DOES have some talent. HOWEVER, it is Microsoft LAW to only higher young inexperienced talent. That's just a fact... not making that up. And there's a huge REASON for that... young minds can be shaped. I can name many companies with far more experienced developers that are capable of actually building things from scratch (noting that most Microsoft technology is not original but obtained through acquisition). If Microsoft was as talented as you describe, they wouldn't have some of the obvious flaws they have in their software... and Vista would be bought up today like gang-busters etc.



Linux is VERY viable for almost ALL situations. And that's not "fanboism"... it's just a fact. Yes.. there are places where Microsoft is so entrenched that Linux is not considered, but for every place where Microsoft fits, I can probably show you at least 10 places where Linux is a better fit. It's just too flexible. My experience in the field is that users live within the confined limits of Microsoft because they don't know anything else is out there. I've never met an MCSE that didn't switch over to Linux after they gave it a chance... none... Linux is flexible and that means power. Admins love power and flexibility. IMHO Windows is for the lazy MCSE or Sys Admin that doesn't want to explore the riches of the world that surrounds him/her. Which I find to be a very sad thing.

The assumption that Microsoft's toolsets are a good reason to support a single non-open platform is ludicrous IMHO. No reason to be chained all of your life. Microsoft won't even give you the saw to cut your chains. At least with Linux, you have the freedom to pursue whatever you want... even Microsoft, if that's what you want to do.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: My guess...
by twenex on Thu 12th Apr 2007 23:27 in reply to "RE[5]: My guess..."
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

All very well said, sir.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: My guess...
by google_ninja on Fri 13th Apr 2007 15:44 in reply to "RE[5]: My guess..."
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Granted DirectX owns the gaming industry, BUT only because of Windows... and NO other reason. As Microsoft keeps pushing people away, another platform will take hold. It's just a matter of time. And.. it might be a DirectX variant... who knows.

Talk to a game developer. They will tell you directx kinda sucked until version 4 or 5, but now there really isnt anything available thats better.

C is still more popular than C++ and certainly Java. If it's a lines of code contest, then COBOL wins hands down... sorry, but 2nd place isn't even in the same ballpark. I don't think you'll see too much embedded development done in anything "higher" than C. C isn't even close to being "downright archaic" or "virtually obsolete". I don't like C++ either (personally). Microsoft has done the most to keep that puppy alive.

Im not talking about legacy, im talking about modern development. In the embedded space, java is currently the most used. In the business space, its java, with .net creeping up. On the desktop space, its C++, with .net creeping up. C is simply not used due to its non-OO nature.

Mono, which is a portable superset of .Net, may well be the better .Net. Don't confuse .Net with .Net plus Microsoft proprietary closed solns. .Net on Linux is reality TODAY and is most popular with WINDOWS users.... believe it or not.

I develop in asp.net 2.0. If I used linux, I would be working in a gimped environment, with less features available to me. And don't even talk about deploying on linux, the performance and stability are well below the windows implementation.

This is the problem about reverse engineering vs writing your own thing. You will alwas be playing catch up.

Microsoft DOES have some talent. HOWEVER, it is Microsoft LAW to only higher young inexperienced talent. That's just a fact... not making that up. And there's a huge REASON for that... young minds can be shaped. I can name many companies with far more experienced developers that are capable of actually building things from scratch (noting that most Microsoft technology is not original but obtained through acquisition). If Microsoft was as talented as you describe, they wouldn't have some of the obvious flaws they have in their software... and Vista would be bought up today like gang-busters etc.

Flaws in ms software has to do with beurocracy, not with talent. MS only hires the top 2 percentile out of universities, they have most of the top programmers in the world on their payroll.

I wasnt referring to that though, I was referring to the lack of a modern language for linux desktop development. Theres a reason that most new stuff in gnome is either python or mono with gtk bindings, because new programmers dont learn C any more, and C++ is currently being phased out of schools.

Linux is VERY viable for almost ALL situations. And that's not "fanboism"... it's just a fact. Yes.. there are places where Microsoft is so entrenched that Linux is not considered, but for every place where Microsoft fits, I can probably show you at least 10 places where Linux is a better fit. It's just too flexible. My experience in the field is that users live within the confined limits of Microsoft because they don't know anything else is out there. I've never met an MCSE that didn't switch over to Linux after they gave it a chance... none... Linux is flexible and that means power. Admins love power and flexibility. IMHO Windows is for the lazy MCSE or Sys Admin that doesn't want to explore the riches of the world that surrounds him/her. Which I find to be a very sad thing.

Microsoft has made it insanely easy to administer their platform, and has the products nessicary to run todays businesses. Any trained monkey can become an MCSE, Linux is far more complex and difficult an environment to administer. This is why I said MS is an ideal platform for small to medium sized businesses, who want to hire a guy, not an it department to administer their network.

And like I have said before, there is nothing on linux that offers the same rapid application development as VS.net, nothing. That is also a huge factor for an enterprise environment, how much will it cost to get your software made. It is one of the last large holes in the linux software stack, and its something that desperately needs to be filled. Currently, it looks like either java gui frameworks need beefing up in a seirous way, or mono needs heavy optimization and a good IDE.

Not only that, but mac is so much of a better desktop os then linux its hard to honestly compare the two. If you are a geek, then linux will be a joy and a pleasure to learn. If you arent, then never recommend it to anyone you dont want to have to administer yourself.

The assumption that Microsoft's toolsets are a good reason to support a single non-open platform is ludicrous IMHO. No reason to be chained all of your life. Microsoft won't even give you the saw to cut your chains. At least with Linux, you have the freedom to pursue whatever you want... even Microsoft, if that's what you want to do.

Neither I or my clients are chained to anything. MS simply provides the best tools for the job, and in good concience I cannot recommend PHP/Linux above ASP.net/Windows. If one day it makes sense to do so, I will whole heartedly, as like I have previously said, I find linux cool and the opensource world a nifty idea. But right now, a non-biased evaluation of whats available based on technological merits will give me windows with .net every time.

Reply Parent Score: 1