"It seems unfortunate if we do this work and get our partners to do the work and the result is that Linux works great without having to do the work" said Bill Gates in 1999 (pdf). While we don't know if he actually managed to do just that (creating problems to other OSes to work well with ACPI), but if he did, it is a good explanation why ACPI has been flaky on the majority of x86 computers with anything else other than Windows (the older, APM standard, seemed more compatible with alternative OSes).
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Member since:2005-08-18
"Surely you've run across those sites that only work with IE?"
You know, I haven't actually ran across such a site in a *long* time. I used a while back but not in recent times.
Are web designers getting their shit together or is it Firefox/Konqueror that works around these IE quirks? I dunno, but I sure don't run in to them as much as I used to, if at all.
Edited 2007-04-13 12:20
Member since:2006-10-12
Both. There are more developers now building sites that are standards-driven and accessible than ever before.
Unfortunately, there are far more people creating web-sites than ever before, and the vast majority of new starts are still following circa-1996 tutorials or copying and pasting from the godawful code behind many major sites.
Firefox, et al, have had to put shims in place for compatibility, because not doing so would be a major barrier to adoption.
Member since:2005-07-07
I don't run into these sites, normally. But recently, I tried to find and book a holiday online. Well, those sites suck, at least the dutch ones. 50% of em doesn't work at all in konqueror, and firefox doesn't do much better. Dunno if they even work in IE but I bet they do...
Member since:2007-02-22
Except for that little thing called lockin. It's not because IE is superior, it's because MS created a non standards-compliant browser and shipped it with the OS most people use.
Erm... those are strawman arguments. Lockin doesn't exist when you can freely use other browsers (if you haven't noticed, you are even asked if you want to install some of these other browsers during a normal installation of IE7), and many of the 'standards' that are being created today are anything but standard.
Member since:2007-01-18
Your getting modded down pretty fast for this comment, but I want to address it anyway.
First let me say that I haven't noticed the IE7 install asking if I want to install other browsers. Maybe it does, but I haven't seen it.
As for standards. Here's how I view what is standard and what is not. First of all the W3C and ECMA don't actually create standards. They create recommendations for a standard way of doing things. Not all recommendations are followed by those who choose to use them. I don't know of any browser who fully supports every W3C recommendation.
To me a standard is when more than one company (in the case of browsers) chooses to follow a given recommendation. It's not based on market share. However, I will concede that IE, in it's own way, has a coding standard. It's just a very poor one. IE7 is attempting to fix that by more closely following the W3C recommendations.
It's my opinion that browsers should not fix poorly coded web pages. We might have better web pages if browser developers elected to stop making browsers fix bad coding. However, that tends to acceptable behavior as not fixing bad code only makes the browser look inferior.
Member since:2005-10-05
Almafeta, can you give me a screenshot of the setup program for Internet Explorer asking you if you wouldn't rather be installing Firefox or Opera? I'd really love to see that because it seems like you're confusing the selection of your search engines during the first run of IE with the idea of Microsoft actually letting people know that there are other browsers out there that have been doing what it thinks are innovative and revolutionary features of recent IE revisions for years.
Lockin with IE exists because IE is a flat-out requirement for many places, not the least of which are governmental and financial institutions. At the end of your comment you underline the main issue that's been around since the Netscape/IE war began, 'standards' being created by a company and supported only by their browser. Not to mention standards simply not being supported at all. It's obvious you're not a web developer and haven't had to deal with the lameness that is IE when so many other browsers just do things right.
Member since:2005-11-13
Member since:2005-07-07
But at the time it took over the world, IE was the superior browser.
You're right. At the time IE took over it was the superior browser. Of course that hasn't been the case for years now yet they still own the browser "market". In fact even IE7 is inferior to most other browsers out there including Firefox, Konq, Opera, and Safari.
Member since:2005-12-15
Member since:
2005-11-11
If it were superior, people would use it over IE - especially given the obvious security problems alone.
Except for that little thing called lockin. Surely you've run across those sites that only work with IE? It's not because IE is superior, it's because MS created a non standards-compliant browser and shipped it with the OS most people use. That allowed web developers to be lazy, only certifying their site to work on IE, and in many cases using the IE only extensions. Lockin is what let the IE team cruise (to the point of not existing for a while), not any superiority of the browser.
Attempting to conflate popularity with quality is something that won't get you anywhere. Opera is an amazing browser, and does what it can against a product that comes with folks' OS and which has become (esp with 7) good enough.