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I agree and I thought Unix style permissions were the way to go. Why reinvent the wheel when there is proven technology already out there?

While I'm a Unix nerd, regular Unix style permission aren't as robust as NTFS permissions. When you implement ACL's or similar then you get on par, but unix stlye permission can't hang.

Unix-style permissions are limited and not particularly secure. They're more an accident of how Unix was initially implemented than anything else. ACLs are the way of the present and MAC/RBAC (and I hope Capabilities) is what will be implemented in the future (or in high-security installations today).

One of the design goals of NT was to pass the B2 Common Criteria certification for the US DoD. Under those criteria, Unix permissions just don't cut it. That's why all *nixes are adding ACLs and other mechanisms.

Standard UNIX / Linux access control (i.e. rwx bits) are limited and archaic. The better way, more aligned with the flexibility of NTFS permissions would be RBAC (Role Based Access Control).

Yeah, why innovate at all? Its all just re-inventing the wheel at this point. Why not completely mimic the windows ui on every operating system. Re-doing a new design is just re-inventing the wheel, right? Why code Linux? Its just a clone of Unix.. Isn't THAT just re-inventing the wheel? The truth of the matter is, its a matter of preference. Believe it or not, some people like the way windows does it.

I would just prefer a more secure kernel and OS, not something that asks me if I am sure that I would like to change the theme 1000 times.

It's not that the kernel and core OS components are insecure so much as it's the applications demanding access to system-wide resources. I'm sure that Windows has many system resources that should be per-user, but changing these would break the applications. The applications were written on the premise that the user has full reign over the system, which is no longer the case. The crap that used to pass for an application doesn't cut it anymore, and that's why we (or more accurately you [all], since I don't use Vista) have UAC.

Other operating systems provide the same mechanisms provided by UAC, but they're much less annoying because the applications for those platforms understand that the user has limited rights. Most Linux distributions have a one-command or one-click software update facility that only requires root authentication once, not once (or more) for every package. Changing desktop or application settings is not a privileged operation. If Vista worked like this, then UAC wouldn't be universally hated at all.

People liken UAC to a "boy who cried wolf" situation. But these prompts aren't false alarms, they are actually wolves in sheep's clothing. The applications shouldn't be doing this stuff, but the user has to let them have their way or else they won't work properly.

well, it might not be that UAC is that bad, but currently, ppl wo want to install firefox from their website get 3 (!!!) messages of 'are you sure' before they even enter the installer (to answer even more questions).

First 'this is downloaded, are you sure you want to run it' then a 'this is an unknown app, sure you want to run it' then UAC, then the installer. Sorry, but I can install 10 applications with only ONE dialog asking me for the rootpasword in linux. Start Adept/Synaptic/whatever, give pw, tick 10 boxes, click 'execute', and it's done. Windows would need to ask 30 times 'are you sure' and a lot of other 'next' style wizards asking if you want another icon on your desktop or where you want to install the application.

Yeah, software management only got harder with UAC while it doesn't solve anything (OF COURSE you just hit enter, it's way overdone!)

UAC has been overplayed by the "MS SUXXORZ" crowd as expected. The idea that it pops up every seven seconds is stupid at best, and the usual FUD at worst. Once you're done installing and configuring crap, you should not see it. Let me repeat that: I haven't seen a UAC prompt since I "stabilized" my two Vista boxes almost two months ago. If I expect to see it, I expect I'll see it about as often as I do on Ubuntu.

But of course, it's always more fun to blabber on about how a Microsoft product is doing "funny" things. Yes, "universally hated" and the basic misunderstanding (probably on purpose) of the fact that UAC compensates for software written for the admin-all-the-time model of previous versions of Windows.

Carry on. Those of us who actuall use Vista know that you are full of shit.

I have vista here, and it's shit. Not that guy, Vista.

Currently, ppl wo want to install firefox from their website get 3 (!!!) messages of 'are you sure' before they even enter the installer (to answer even more questions).

First 'this is downloaded, are you sure you want to run it' then a 'this is an unknown app, sure you want to run it' then UAC, then the installer. Sorry, but I can install 10 applications with only ONE dialog asking me for the rootpasword in linux. Start Adept/Synaptic/whatever, give pw, tick 10 boxes, click 'execute', and it's done. Windows would need to ask 30 times 'are you sure' and a lot of other 'next' style wizards asking if you want another icon on your desktop or where you want to install the application.

Yeah, software management only got harder with UAC while it doesn't solve anything (OF COURSE you just hit enter, it's way overdone!)

1) You don't get asked a 1000 times.
2) That dialog that you get is not asking you if you are sure you want to run it, it is elevating your privelages so you can run it.
3) No matter what OS or kernel you are using, a user running as admin has full rights to the system (except in Vista, actually, only the administrator account has full access, and that is disabled by default).

Yes, you get asked stuff a million times. Way too much. Not just UAC, everything. Try to install an application:

First 'this is downloaded, are you sure you want to run it' then a 'this is an unknown app, sure you want to run it' then UAC, then the installer. Sorry, but I can install 10 applications with only ONE dialog asking me for the rootpasword in linux. Start Adept/Synaptic/whatever, give pw, tick 10 boxes, click 'execute', and it's done. Windows would need to ask 30 times 'are you sure' and a lot of other 'next' style wizards asking if you want another icon on your desktop or where you want to install the application.