Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 1st Jun 2007 15:05 UTC, submitted by Michael
AMD "Last year when AMD announced their acquisition of ATI it led many to wonder how this would impact the quality of their Linux support and driver. Some had even speculated that AMD would be opening the code to at least a subset of their graphics drivers, and while this issue has come up again more recently, we will cover this particular topic in a different article. In this article we will be exposing what truly consists of the ATI/AMD driver development cycle and ultimately what they are really doing to improve their image in the Linux community."
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RE[3]: ATI Drivers
by Kokopelli on Sun 3rd Jun 2007 07:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: ATI Drivers "
Kokopelli
Member since:
2005-07-06

Worked in the Enterprise for close to 15 Years, what you're saying is true with the Vendors. But are you saying we don't have a choice on the hardware spec's?


No, what I am saying is that the choice of video card is not pertinent nor is it likely to come up as a factor in the decision of hardware. RAM, CPU, HD Configuration (especially on servers) are all very important. But the video card is not a factor at all on servers. For deskptops/laptops, at the anything above small business the default gpu for whatever model is being bought will be left alone unless there is some special purpose that requires its replacement with an upgrade.

You said that many Linux advocates work in IT (which is true). And that they influence what hardware is bought in the enterprise (also true). And by implication that this has/can have a significant impact on the number of business systems bought with ATI gpus in them Here is where my opinion differs.

Out of the systems that are bought for a business how many do you think have an upgraded video card? And out of those upgrades, in your opinion are a significant number of them chosen NOT to be ATI due to their (lack of) Linux support.

My contention is that this bad blood many linux advocates feel for ATI is not particularly traumatic to ATI's bottom line. I am sure it does have an impact, but it is my opinion (as I stated before) that ATI has weighed the cost in good will and found it to be less than the cost of developing and supporting good drivers for Linux and other alternative Operating Systems. I have faith that eventually they will support Linux better than they do now, but I do not think it will be the threat of a Linux user boycott that will do it. Wanting contracts and good will with the Dell's of the world are more important to their vision. In an ironic twist I believe at least one of the Dell systems shipping with Ubuntu has a ATI GPU does it not?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: ATI Drivers
by kaiwai on Sun 3rd Jun 2007 07:26 in reply to "RE[3]: ATI Drivers "
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

No, what I am saying is that the choice of video card is not pertinent nor is it likely to come up as a factor in the decision of hardware. RAM, CPU, HD Configuration (especially on servers) are all very important. But the video card is not a factor at all on servers. For deskptops/laptops, at the anything above small business the default gpu for whatever model is being bought will be left alone unless there is some special purpose that requires its replacement with an upgrade.


But we're not talking about servers, we're talking about desktops/workstations/laptops. I don't know where you got the issued of server, because it has nothing to do with the current issues at hand.

You said that many Linux advocates work in IT (which is true). And that they influence what hardware is bought in the enterprise (also true). And by implication that this has/can have a significant impact on the number of business systems bought with ATI gpus in them Here is where my opinion differs.

Out of the systems that are bought for a business how many do you think have an upgraded video card? And out of those upgrades, in your opinion are a significant number of them chosen NOT to be ATI due to their (lack of) Linux support.


Better question; how many of them have ATI? I'd say next to none; most of them will be usig descrete Intel GMA950 graphics cards. Keep pushing Intel and Nvidia solutions over Ati. Intel for the low end, and Nvidia for the high end. If the vendor only has ATI, then purchase it off some other company.

My contention is that this bad blood many linux advocates feel for ATI is not particularly traumatic to ATI's bottom line. I am sure it does have an impact, but it is my opinion (as I stated before) that ATI has weighed the cost in good will and found it to be less than the cost of developing and supporting good drivers for Linux and other alternative Operating Systems.


Unless you live under a rock, and a man as an island, then sure. But how many people do you influence when it comes to IT? how many come to you who ask for advice, "which computer should I purchase?!". For me, Intel for low end, Nvidia for high end.

I have faith that eventually they will support Linux better than they do now, but I do not think it will be the threat of a Linux user boycott that will do it. Wanting contracts and good will with the Dell's of the world are more important to their vision. In an ironic twist I believe at least one of the Dell systems shipping with Ubuntu has a ATI GPU does it not?


And if the Dell does, then refuse to purchase it unless you can get it replaced with an Nvidia one. Dell needs to learn something; don't deal with assholes like ATI/AMD or otherwise you will not make a sale. We the customer decides what gets sold, not them. Learn freemarket economics; demand dictates what is supplied. If Dell or any other vendor thinks they can push shoddy products onto customers, they've got another thing coming. If they continue to sell Ati products, they've obviously learned nothing.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: ATI Drivers
by Kokopelli on Sun 3rd Jun 2007 08:31 in reply to "RE[4]: ATI Drivers "
Kokopelli Member since:
2005-07-06

I mention servers because it is a significant part of expenditures in the enterprise. I then continue and discuss desktops and workstations.

You are honestly arguing that it is the lack of Linux support that is the heart of ATI's problems? The encroaching of Intel chipsets on the laptop market is a problem. The loss of ~20% of the mobile market is a problem. Linux is not the cause, or even a catalyst, to either of these.

Learn freemarket economics; demand dictates what is supplied. If Dell or any other vendor thinks they can push shoddy products onto customers, they've got another thing coming


Learn to be less condescending. I have studied economics actually, and it is not as simple as you seem to believe, nor does theory always hold up to reality. MS has succeeded in selling suboptimal products and eliminated multiple arguably superior products in their market space. Dells are not the best, but they are not "shoddy" either, though I prefer IBM's (now Lenovo).

In the theoretical free market there is a low cost of entry into the market to stimulate trade. This is not the case in the IT industry given the extremely high cost of FABs and chip design. Further in a pure freemarket economy there is not a concept of profit driven trade, nor does the theory of free market take into account herd instinct. A lack of an equilibruim beng reached in the market is why prices can be driven so far beyond cost.

Unless you live under a rock, and a man as an island, then sure. But how many people do you influence when it comes to IT?


I am the decision maker actually and I write the recommendations on hardware purchases for clients with regularity. Further I am the primary influencer for technical purchases for my family and (admittedly small) social circle. I still contend that in the macro scale of things the influence of the Linux crowd as effected by ATI's lack of good Linux drivers, is small compared to other, more important factors.

But this is going in circles in an ever widening off topic pattern. We could go back and forth forever but really I am not going to change your views nor you mine so I am going to leave it be barring some reasonably new argument. One last time though ATI has taken the linux community under consideration and rightly or wrongly have decided that it was in their economic best interests to not make them a priority at this time. It may be a wrong decision, but if you think they made it without consideration and forethought you are mistaken. Good day.

Reply Parent Score: 1