Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 6th Jun 2007 20:50 UTC, submitted by Francis Kuntz
Mac OS X Perhaps overcome with excitement (and forgetting that Apple doesn't like such pre-emptive disclosures), Sun's Jonathan Schwartz announced today at Sun event in D.C. that Apple would be making ZFS 'the file system' in OSX 10.5 Leopard. "In fact, this week you'll see that Apple is announcing at their Worldwide Developer Conference that ZFS has become the file system in Mac OS X."
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Notes
by Luminair on Wed 6th Jun 2007 21:32 UTC
Luminair
Member since:
2007-03-30

Jonathan Schwartz definitely dropped that news to get some recognition in early. Apple will no doubt hype ZFS to the moon and neglect to mention who created it. Sun would love to keep ZFS to themselves, but that's the way the open source cookie crumbles.

ZFS isn't a magic bullet, it isn't mature compared to every other major file system, it still has bug fixes coming in all the time, and it has new features on the way.

Don't expect to see support for booting from ZFS. It is so early in development that test builds of Solaris don't even have support for it in the installer.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Notes
by riha on Wed 6th Jun 2007 23:11 in reply to "Notes"
riha Member since:
2006-01-24

donīt forget that solaris and osx has different ways of booting and layout of partitions.

osx could very well be able to boot up on zfs.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Notes
by binarycrusader on Wed 6th Jun 2007 23:57 in reply to "Notes"
binarycrusader Member since:
2005-07-06

Sun would love to keep ZFS to themselves, but that's the way the open source cookie crumbles.


That comment makes absolutely no sense given that Sun, by their own choice, paid millions of dollars to certify and open the source to Solaris, including ZFS. That doesn't sound like someone that wants to "keep it ZFS to themselves."

ZFS isn't a magic bullet, it isn't mature compared to every other major file system, it still has bug fixes coming in all the time, and it has new features on the way.


Yes, and there are still bug fixes to NTFS, and still bug fixes to ext3, and still bug fixes to ReiserFS, and XFS, and so on...your point?

Don't expect to see support for booting from ZFS. It is so early in development that test builds of Solaris don't even have support for it in the installer.


Bzzzt. Wrong. The OpenSolaris version of GRUB already supports ZFS booting. It's the installer that doesn't currently. You can boot from ZFS.

Edited 2007-06-06 23:57 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Notes
by Luminair on Thu 7th Jun 2007 01:45 in reply to "RE: Notes"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

Yeah, that's what I said ;)

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Notes
by Elektronkind on Thu 7th Jun 2007 03:28 in reply to "Notes"
Elektronkind Member since:
2006-09-22

Your logic is incredible.

Sun would love to keep ZFS to themselves, but that's the way the open source cookie crumbles.

You should run that statement by the many Sun-employeed engineers who cheered the announcement that ZFS is in FreeBSD now, and applaud Apple's prominent inclusion of it in Leopard.

ZFS isn't a magic bullet, it isn't mature compared to every other major file system, it still has bug fixes coming in all the time, and it has new features on the way

If you judge software stability by time and not by practice, you might just be right. But software isn't like wine, where the older it is the better it gets. In many cases, it can be the opposite. Bug fixes all the time? Show me a popular file system which goes for release upon release without bug fixes. I think this statement of yours illustrates your unfamiliarity with the providence of ZFS. Sun developed and release the initial rev of ZFS with stability as the primary goal, which the 50TB of disk I have under ZFS control would happily agree with. The overwhelming majority of code changes to ZFS since its release have focused on performance and features. Why is it like this? Well, if you wan a new fs which emphisized performance over stability when it left the gate, you are probably one who would enjoy things such as reiserfs *spit*.

Don't expect to see support for booting from ZFS. It is so early in development that test builds of Solaris don't even have support for it in the installer.

Alright, now your unfamiliarity with Solaris really shines through with this bit. Tell me how the Solaris installer has anything to do with Apple's ZFS implementation ?

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Notes
by DigitalAxis on Thu 7th Jun 2007 05:23 in reply to "RE: Notes"
DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

Well, they apparently want stability based on things like "I've used it for six years and it's never failed me yet", versus "I've used it for six months and it's never failed me yet", or "It's theoretically amazingly sound".

Now, all of those could apply to the same filesystem, just at different points along its lifespan. But we don't get to know which ones get 'time-tested stability' until they've been time-tested...

At least, I think that's how this goes. I've had the same confusion you have about this whole thing, especially when it's mostly used to justify the existence of the relatively featureless and performanceless filesystems, as if that's the only way to judge usefulness.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Notes
by Luminair on Thu 7th Jun 2007 05:39 in reply to "RE: Notes"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

Take it easy my zealous padre. Sun is a lot bigger than some project engineers.

I hope your confidence is well-placed and ZFS turns out to be the messiah of file systems in 5 months when Mac OS 10.5 is released.

> Tell me how the Solaris installer has anything to do with Apple's ZFS implementation ?

I'd like to believe that the creators of ZFS won't be beaten to the punch by a third party that is late to the party. But it's possible!

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Notes
by kaiwai on Thu 7th Jun 2007 03:58 in reply to "Notes"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Jonathan Schwartz definitely dropped that news to get some recognition in early. Apple will no doubt hype ZFS to the moon and neglect to mention who created it. Sun would love to keep ZFS to themselves, but that's the way the open source cookie crumbles.


Who said Sun wanted to keep ZFS to themselves? what Sun don't want people to do is steal bits of code from Solaris and then stop any enhancements from coming back. That is the problem with ZFS in Linx - the fact that all enhancements would then be licenced under GPL and Sun would be screwed.

Sorry, opensource is more than just running around screaming "GPL! GPL! GPL!" - it actually involves a community where sharing of code occurs in BOTH directions, not just one big giant sucking sound comeing from one corner.

ZFS isn't a magic bullet, it isn't mature compared to every other major file system, it still has bug fixes coming in all the time, and it has new features on the way.


But at the same time, it is mature enough for people to use in everyday situations.

Don't expect to see support for booting from ZFS. It is so early in development that test builds of Solaris don't even have support for it in the installer.


If you have a look at the arc caselog, the new installer is actually ready to be merged into Solaris, which should mean support for bootable ZFS support.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Notes
by Luminair on Thu 7th Jun 2007 06:17 in reply to "RE: Notes"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

I haven't seen that. What I do know is that the first version of the installer is due next month: http://opensolaris.org/os/project/caiman/Dwarf/;jsessionid=E8A0FCC9... , and it will be used in the next SXDE, the release date of which I don't know.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Notes
by paolox on Thu 7th Jun 2007 14:34 in reply to "Notes"
paolox Member since:
2007-06-07

I agree that ZFS is not mature compared to "senior" file system but many months ago I've read that BeFS guru was working at Apple.

Someone has an idea of what has Apple done with his (I'm speaking of BeFS guru) marvellous file system (perhaps the best BeOS feature) ?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Notes
by Tuishimi on Thu 7th Jun 2007 21:21 in reply to "RE: Notes"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

If I am not mistaken, and I usually AM, the "BeFS guy" was the gent that made spotlight happen.

Reply Parent Score: 2