Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 19th Jun 2007 10:29 UTC, submitted by binarycrusader
Oracle and SUN Simon Phipps of Sun has responded to the recent criticism of Sun's openness, pointing out that even releasing information that they may already have costs a lot of money. "Jonathan asked me to look into this, to ensure we're pursuing an open path across all of Sun, not simply the software group. We take all input seriously, and we can't solve all problems for all parties, but we're committed to doing our best to faithfully engage with all the communities we serve, in the same spirit as the existing Open Source Ombudsman Scheme. With the support of my team and others in the community I'll try to build a new scheme that is fair and transparent."
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RE: What is openness?
by binarycrusader on Tue 19th Jun 2007 16:39 UTC in reply to "What is openness?"
binarycrusader
Member since:
2005-07-06

No, Sun should buy the best hardware that meets the requirements of their customers at a price and performance level that meets their needs.

Sometimes this means choosing hardware that doesn't have open specifications but is significantly cheaper or better than available alternatives.

Forcing the choice of open hardware is only practical when that qualifier is more important to customers than any other.

If I have to choose between:

* $500 for a slow video card but has open source drivers

* $100 for an ultra fast video card but no open source drivers

I'm going to choose the second option every time because "perceived freedom" is not worth the difference in price.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: What is openness?
by Silent_Seer on Tue 19th Jun 2007 17:02 in reply to "RE: What is openness?"
Silent_Seer Member since:
2007-04-06

I'm going to choose the second option every time because "perceived freedom" is not worth the difference in price.


Agreed. But SUN should include openess regarding documentation, as part of their needs when they evaluate their hardware partners. Why? Because that's what is expected from an OSS friendly company.

P.S. I think SUN is a great company and deserves their 'OSS supporter' badge. It's just that things take time. OSS people have every right to make complaints to get problems noticed. This will only help for the better.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: What is openness?
by binarycrusader on Tue 19th Jun 2007 17:06 in reply to "RE[2]: What is openness?"
binarycrusader Member since:
2005-07-06

Agreed. But SUN should include openess regarding documentation, as part of their needs when they evaluate their hardware partners. Why? Because that's what is expected from an OSS friendly company

I'm certain they do at this point, and Simon, by posting this, has assured us that it will be a consideration going forward.

Edited 2007-06-19 17:07

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: What is openness?
by phoehne on Tue 19th Jun 2007 17:36 in reply to "RE: What is openness?"
phoehne Member since:
2006-08-26

Someone like Sun has the market power to go to a Broadcom and say "sorry, can't use your RAID chips - you won't open the drivers. However, Intel will." In my personal experience the contrast has rarely been so stark as in your example. In many cases the performance is comparable but maybe the Broadcom chipset is a little cheaper. In some cases there is no real performance or cost difference, but rather what the engineers have been putting in there. It also encourages the selected vendor to continue opening their drivers. Nothing sucks worse than testing the waters with a competative, open-source product to find no market acceptance. I agree they should pick the "best" hardware but best is often viewed along many axis, which may include the degree to which the driver is open.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: What is openness?
by binarycrusader on Tue 19th Jun 2007 17:51 in reply to "RE[2]: What is openness?"
binarycrusader Member since:
2005-07-06

You seem to be merely repeating what I already stated.

The point is, even a few dollars difference can make a big difference. Remember that Sun has a responsibility to their shareholders *before* the community to bring the most return on their investment. Obviously there is some balance to be hand in that, but "freedom" and "altruistic goals" only go so far.

Finally, Sun actually doesn't have the market position to be able to tell Broadcom "sorry can't use your RAID chips - you won't open your drivers."

As much as I would like to believe Sun has the kind of market power, they don't. Maybe Dell, but definitely not Sun.

I also don't believe that any of Sun's engineers would arbitrarily choose hardware are you seem to imply by saying there could be no cost or performance difference. Everything I have read or heard indicates otherwise.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: What is openness?
by Arun on Tue 19th Jun 2007 18:27 in reply to "RE[2]: What is openness?"
Arun Member since:
2005-07-07

"Someone like Sun has the market power to go to a Broadcom and say "sorry, can't use your RAID chips - you won't open the drivers."

Actually no. Many PC vendors, like Apple, Dell and HP, have far more volume than Sun does to dictate terms to vendors.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: What is openness?
by javiercero1 on Tue 19th Jun 2007 19:26 in reply to "RE[2]: What is openness?"
javiercero1 Member since:
2005-11-10

"I agree they should pick the "best" hardware but best is often viewed along many axis, which may include the degree to which the driver is open."


Clearly you haven't been involved in any large scale design project...

Reply Parent Score: 3