Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 5th Jul 2007 09:11 UTC, submitted by Tim Alson
Hardware, Embedded Systems Dell has taken the unusual step - for a PC vendor of its size - of toning down its sales pitch for Microsoft's Vista operating system and warning businesses of the migration challenges that lie ahead for them. The step is particularly unusual because one of the issues the hardware vendor is warning business about is the extra hardware they will need to buy.
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psychicist
Member since:
2007-01-27

Well, that's not Microsoft's fault. It's the problem with the drivers because some vendors obviously didn't notice the release.


I doesn't matter if it's Microsoft's or the hardware vendors' fault. People want something that works. This isn't an attack on either but someone has to take responsibility and must be held accountable.

Although I don't have any experience with Vista apart from a quick test of Beta 2 in VMware more than a year ago I do have experience with various XP SP2 installations where various certified drivers either included in Windows or from hardware vendors are conflicting up to the point where the system is too unstable for use just after a fresh install.

The way drivers are included in the Linux kernel means that although not all drivers for everything under sun are included, many are and they are tested together constantly so conflicts between drivers are resolved much easier and faster because all drivers can be modified at once if necessary.

I am certain the NT kernel would be a lot more stable if Microsoft adopted the same policy of developing and maintaining drivers alongside the core of the kernel itself. As long as the kernel itself and all drivers are not tested together crashes may happen.

Having had a discussion on this with a relative who has been an MCSE since NT 4.0 but who has also worked with OpenVMS (VAX/Alpha), HP-UX and Solaris, he came to the same conclusion. He also runs my Slackware based operating system at home and it serves primarily as a virtualisation base to run all kinds of Windows releases on, since XP proved too unstable a few years ago.

Reply Parent Score: 5

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

I doesn't matter if it's Microsoft's or the hardware vendors' fault. People want something that works. This isn't an attack on either but someone has to take responsibility and must be held accountable.

I would agree with you, however, I notice that if a driver for Linux is either missing altogether or incomplete, people are quick to point the finger at the hardware vendor. But when the same scenario happens under Vista, some of these same people will scream that it's all Microsoft's fault.

Frankly, I believe it is the fault of the hardware vendors in both cases. Btu in the end, if stuff doesn't work, then the reason really doesn't matter as far as in end user is concerned. It either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then somebody needs to fix it.

Reply Parent Score: 4

twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

Frankly, I believe it is the fault of the hardware vendors in both cases. Btu in the end, if stuff doesn't work, then the reason really doesn't matter as far as in end user is concerned. It either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then somebody needs to fix it.

Actually, in the case of an incomplete, in-kernel, open source hardware driver, with Linux you'd be justified in (mostly) blaming the kernel developers. Not that that happens often, and this is where open source really comes into its own - because the Linux kernel devs have control over the kernel, because they have control over open source drivers, and because they demand high quality in their software, you don't get the situation where high-quality, production code suffers because of some crappy 3rd party driver. Of course, mistakes can happen, and I doubt pre-release code is that stable, but the only time I have ever seen a kernel panic on Linux that wasn't due to my own stupidity passing the boot flags was, indeed, a case of a crappily-implemented or unmaintained part of the kernel. Since that experience with ReiserFS3, I have since sworn off ReiserFS!

Reply Parent Score: 2

google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

So the lack of (or extraordinarily poor) support of webcams, winmodems, scanners, and wifi cards in linux is something the kernel devs should be held accountable for? I don't believe that, and I doubt you do either.

The big problem with the linux way of having drivers as kernel modules is that any time the kernel changes, all the drivers have to change too. This could mean a recompile, but it could also mean more substantial changes. Windows has a layer of abstraction which gives vendors a stable ABI to work with, which means that when the kernel gets patched, drivers still work (the majority of the time anyways)

The linux way works when drivers are opensource, but the linux way makes commercial support pure hell. Since being business friendly is what windows is all about, it would make no sense to go that way.

Reply Parent Score: 2

cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

"So the lack of (or extraordinarily poor) support of webcams, winmodems, scanners, and wifi cards in linux is something the kernel devs should be held accountable for? I don't believe that, and I doubt you do either."

Is that true!? Your spreading little lies again. I have a scanner here a Cannon IDE 30. I have a wifi card here ;a zyxel 202. Both work, if fact the software in Gnu is better(read not trash) than that bundled with the scanner or in Vista, and connecting my wifi to my router;gateway;modem, is simpler process on Gnu for my wifi card. In fact my router;gateway;modem uses Gnu.

I actually chose the wifi card from http://linuxwireless.org/ compatibility list.

The world has evolved past linmodems now, but they were pretty rubbish, and a hardware modem was the only way to go, but many linmodems are supported.

I know nothing of webcams, but I suspect there are also compatibility lists. In fact there was an article that one individual had wrote webcam support for over a thousand webcams.

Is it the fault of Gnu if it is unable to support these devices!? Absolutely especially if they are given access to proper hardware specifications, and a real working relationship with the company involved. The reality is an awful lot of hardware seems to work better on Gnu despite this. Oddly you can buy everything 100% compatible products of *all* those devices *together* for less than the cost of vista home basic oem.

I do find it funny that you lie that you have to recompile the kernel for new devices, when very few compile their kernel at all. I believe Distributions like Suse; Ret Hat; Fedora; Ubuntu all come with a recompiled version...with everything

Microsoft do not even have this excuse or any other for poor hardware support in Vista. Its not like its been in beta for like forever, or hardware/software companies were surprised by the Vista launch, or the fact that Vista was released November last year. When will it come out of beta.

BTW making loads of cash is what Microsoft is all about.

Edited 2007-07-05 20:16

Reply Parent Score: 1