Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 23rd Jul 2007 21:20 UTC, submitted by Innova
Gentoo "Over the past few days, I discovered that the Gentoo Foundation's charter is in the process of being revoked by the state of New Mexico, apparently due to regular paperwork not being filed by the trustees. What this means is that the Gentoo Foundation is currently hanging for its life by a string, and at any day could cease to exist as an entity. That is the very bad news. The good news is that I was able to talk to Grant Goodyear (trustee) this morning on the phone, and I have confirmed that Grant had received my email about the revocation issue that I sent 2 days ago and that he will be resolving this critical issue in the next couple of days by filing the appropriate paperwork with the state of New Mexico, and this paperwork will also remove me as President of the Foundation."
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RE: Please Explain
by b00gie on Mon 23rd Jul 2007 22:19 UTC in reply to "Please Explain"
b00gie
Member since:
2006-06-09

1.flames after flames among developers are a common view in mailing lists
2. there is no real work for something new that will bring gentoo forward. Almost nothing have changed from when drobbins resigned... no innovation
3. lack of developers or interest produce delays (2007.0 delayed sooo many times, kde is still 2 versions behind, gnome 2.18 just recent changed from hardmask to testing, livecd installer S-U-X just some examples)
4. developers resign one after the other.
Common reason "there is no fun any more"

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Please Explain
by hechacker1 on Mon 23rd Jul 2007 22:37 in reply to "RE: Please Explain"
hechacker1 Member since:
2005-08-01

1.flames after flames among developers are a common view in mailing lists
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Flames for what?
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2. there is no real work for something new that will bring gentoo forward. Almost nothing have changed from when drobbins resigned... no innovation
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Ok, but Gentoo's portage makes this a moot point at least in the software side of things. What would I like to see in Gentoo "moving forward?" Perhaps a lower learning curve by catering to Linux newbies. I mean we all could RTFM... But I guess the livecd and installer needs to be perfected, as well as hardware detection and setup. Sabayon Linux goes a long way to put together a "user friendly" live cd with all the bling. It's just a Gentoo derivative which can still be updated using portage (Sabayon isn't what I'd call a fork)
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3. lack of developers or interest produce delays (2007.0 delayed sooo many times, kde is still 2 versions behind, gnome 2.18 just recent changed from hardmask to testing, livecd installer S-U-X just some examples)
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I run a testing system, but if a particular ebuild is unstable, I know how to choose the version I want. I agree some things could be updated to "stable" faster, but overall I can choose what I want when I want it. Version identifiers, i.e. 2007.0 really don't mean anything. An emerge -uD world brings you up to date. No matter which installation year you started with.

I'm not familiar with the live-cd installer, so I can't really comment on that.
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4. developers resign one after the other.
Common reason "there is no fun any more"
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I guess this may be true, but I assume somebody else takes their place. Gentoo seems community driven to me.

Edited 2007-07-23 22:53

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Please Explain
by b00gie on Mon 23rd Jul 2007 23:48 in reply to "RE[2]: Please Explain"
b00gie Member since:
2006-06-09

Flames for what?

Well, for many things. I think most e.g recommendations for changes end up to flames lol ;)

Ok, but Gentoo's portage makes this a moot point at least in the software side of things. What would I like to see in Gentoo "moving forward?" Perhaps a lower learning curve by catering to Linux newbies. I mean we all could RTFM... But I guess the livecd and installer needs to be perfected, as well as hardware detection and setup. Sabayon Linux goes a long way to put together a "user friendly" live cd with all the bling. It's just a Gentoo derivative which can still be updated using portage (Sabayon isn't what I'd call a fork)

Who talked for newbies? Innovation is an advantage only for newbies?
Even portage, an innovation by drobbins back then, has after many years great flaws and demands serious rewrite. There was portage-ng, not any more...
Sabayon is a nice starting distro that gentoo should support... but i think they have decided not to do it.

I run a testing system, but if a particular ebuild is unstable, I know how to choose the version I want. I agree some things could be updated to "stable" faster, but overall I can choose what I want when I want it. Version identifiers, i.e. 2007.0 really don't mean anything. An emerge -uD world brings you up to date. No matter which installation year you started with.

well if you dream for a farm of testing machines then yes this is your distro. But many more don't want to have every now and then broken emerges so they stack with stable versions.
Consider that we are not talking even for bleeding edge here but what upstream call stable and other distros have already stabilize and release in their products while gentoo still track bugs.
New version releases mean many things.
One is that are useful for new installations (i dont think you would like to build a new gentoo installation with 1 or 2 years old cd and stages) and of course it's also a sign that something is wrong. "You have a schedule. You miss it. You miss it again and again. Fix your management ffs are you blind?!"

I guess this may be true, but I assume somebody else takes their place. Gentoo seems community driven to me.

not always and a newbies developers doesn't compare with some guys who have spent years developing in gentoo project.
It takes time to find how things work.
I remember when flameeyes resigned, this guy was maintaining so many things by himself.I think that is a reason they have delayed to stabilize a new kde version. Ofcouse he came back after a while and he doesn't work on so many things now but the point is that you can not ask from someone to spend all his free time fixing things that should be others responsibility.

Edited 2007-07-23 23:52

Reply Parent Score: 3

v RE[2]: Please Explain
by SlackerJack on Mon 23rd Jul 2007 23:21 in reply to "RE: Please Explain"
RE[2]: Please Explain
by baadger on Tue 24th Jul 2007 01:28 in reply to "RE: Please Explain"
baadger Member since:
2006-08-29

You're information on point 3 is wrong. I'm running ~amd64 and have KDE 3.5.7 installed. I've also had Gnome 2.18 installed for quite some time, so long In fact that i've forgotten when it merged (so maybe it was yesterday hehe) it hasn't been hard masked for quite some time though.

If you're referring to stable arch then yes, maybe KDE is two versions behind but thats just the way things are with Gentoo...and as someone else has pointed out you don't have to sit at either arch or ~arch, you can pick and choose *absolutely everything*

As for the livecd, the stage3 tarball approach is still the primary way of getting the OS installed, and it may be primitive but once you know the Linux layout well enough it's trivial to do from memory and get a nice customed install, The only time i ever use the livecd is when Windows hoses my MBR and frequent releases aren't that important because existing users can emerge --sync and new users, if so inclined could do a stage3 from any other distro's livecd (I've done stage3 installs over a samba using ubuntu livecd's)..

Gentoo is never going to be for the same demographic as Ubuntu or other newbie friendly desktop distro's, thats just how it is and i'm sure if it's survived this long it'll survive for years to come.

Edited 2007-07-24 01:44

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Please Explain
by b00gie on Tue 24th Jul 2007 02:06 in reply to "RE[2]: Please Explain"
b00gie Member since:
2006-06-09

If you're referring to stable arch then yes, maybe it is two versions behind but thats just the way things are is with Gentoo. People wanted a stable package level and thats what they got, gentoo has at heart always been about being bleeding edge so itś not surprising the stable packages are updated a little slowly and as someone else has pointed out you don't have to sit at either arch or ~arch, you can pick and choose.


i hope you understand that stable releases mean fewer bugs. It's not a feature or an advantage to delay so much to get stable version. Kde is 3.5.5 stable while almost all the other major distro have move to 3.5.6.
If thats how Gentoo works well, something is wrong (and wasn't always like that).
Bleeding edge in terms of a testing release is not a unique feature tou gentoo. Take fedora and upgrade to rawhide, there you are.
The point is that if you want to be at the bleeding edge like a whole distro then you have to make it stable before all the others, and support the new version from day one upstream release it.
But something like that demands more developers and some passion that i'm afraid they have lost...

Edited 2007-07-24 02:07

Reply Parent Score: 1