Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 23rd Jul 2007 21:20 UTC, submitted by Innova
Gentoo "Over the past few days, I discovered that the Gentoo Foundation's charter is in the process of being revoked by the state of New Mexico, apparently due to regular paperwork not being filed by the trustees. What this means is that the Gentoo Foundation is currently hanging for its life by a string, and at any day could cease to exist as an entity. That is the very bad news. The good news is that I was able to talk to Grant Goodyear (trustee) this morning on the phone, and I have confirmed that Grant had received my email about the revocation issue that I sent 2 days ago and that he will be resolving this critical issue in the next couple of days by filing the appropriate paperwork with the state of New Mexico, and this paperwork will also remove me as President of the Foundation."
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RE[4]: I hope things work out
by WereCatf on Tue 24th Jul 2007 09:50 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I hope things work out"
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

Let's face it, Gentoo = Portage. OK, it was fun for a while, I guess it made some people get closer to their Linux and some feel more in control and placebo'ed some into feeling they get a "faster" and more "stable" install in return.

And since none of the above is particularly well anchored in reality, yeah, I'd say there's "no intrinsic benefit once the novelty has worn off".


Ahem. Could you please explain how "feel more in control" is not "particularly well anchored in reality"? Cos you know very well that is BS. You _are_ in control; _you_ decide what you want your system to have and what not, you decide how everything is compiled and so on. You can't do that with f.ex. Ubuntu (or okay, you _can_ but only if you tear it down completely and start compiling the stuff yourself, but then you miss the whole point of using it..)

And well, the compilation flags do have some meaning, actually. If you select the wrong ones, you do get an unstable system. If you use -O2, you do get a tad faster apps. Though, the performance boost is really very very negligible, nothing to call home about. But as I use -Os, I get stable apps and they're smaller in size. On my jukebox with low memory I find this pretty useful. I did just compare /usr/bin/nautilus compiled with -O2 to the same compiled with -Os and the difference is 300kB. Considering how big of a difference it is on a single file it must have quite an impact on the system as a whole. On a system with low memory that is very handy.

EDIT: fixed typo

Edited 2007-07-24 09:52

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: I hope things work out
by wirespot on Tue 24th Jul 2007 17:06 in reply to "RE[4]: I hope things work out"
wirespot Member since:
2006-06-21

Could you please explain how "feel more in control" is not "particularly well anchored in reality"?


Simple. You are not in control. All that most of Gentoo users are doing is monkeying around and getting a false feeling of control.

Half of all they do is use emerge. That's not different from any other decent package management system, feature-wise, except with Portage you have to wait hours sometimes for stuff to compile. But I digress. The point is, there's no particular control in simply using a packaging system, no more or less than on other distro's.

The other half of the grand illusion consists of mucking about with compile flags. I doubt a lot of people could seriously sit down and explain what -O does. I mean, really does, not "it makes the programs more stable/fast". And when the compilation is done they sit back and say "yeah, I can tell it's faster/more stable". Please. Give me proof or stop saying that.

So if there's any BS flying around it's pretending that compiling everything from source yields any significant result. The only sure thing is that you're torturing the poor machines for nothing. OK, emerge as a packaging system has it's management merits, but so do other ones. Too bad it is badly crippled by the whole compilation thing.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: I hope things work out
by zsitvaij on Tue 24th Jul 2007 17:46 in reply to "RE[5]: I hope things work out"
zsitvaij Member since:
2006-06-14

Let's turn that around. How many people can create a .deb package? An .rpm? With gentoo, a version bump is as simple as copying an ebuild to your overlay and changing the version number associated.

Explaining what 'O' does is dead simple. It saves you from manually typing out the separate flags for the various optimization levels, as defined by the gcc info files.

The general bullshit flying around is that most gentoo users are like the funroll-loops parody site, as well that the portage tree is without real merit. See my other post, I'm not going to copypasta it.

EDIT: And I guarantee you, if I was to bash the "general" Ubuntu userbase, I'd be modded to hell with good reason. Curious you're moving up.

Edited 2007-07-24 17:48

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: I hope things work out
by b00gie on Tue 24th Jul 2007 17:51 in reply to "RE[5]: I hope things work out"
b00gie Member since:
2006-06-09

Half of all they do is use emerge. That's not different from any other decent package management system, feature-wise, except with Portage you have to wait hours sometimes for stuff to compile. But I digress. The point is, there's no particular control in simply using a packaging system, no more or less than on other distro's.


hmmm...

dev-lang/php-5.2.2-r1 USE="apache2 cli crypt ctype gd iconv mysql ncurses nls pcre readline reflection session spell spl ssl tidy truetype unicode xml zlib (-adabas) -bcmath -berkdb (-birdstep) -bzip2 -calendar -cdb -cgi -cjk -concurrentmodphp -curl -curlwrappers -db2 -dbase (-dbmaker) -debug -discard-path -doc (-empress) (-empress-bcs) (-esoob) -exif -fastbuild (-fdftk) -filter (-firebird) -flatfile -force-cgi-redirect (-frontbase) -ftp -gd-external -gdbm -gmp -hash -imap -inifile -interbase -iodbc -ipv6 -java-external -json -kerberos -ldap -ldap-sasl -libedit -mcve -mhash -msql -mssql -mysqli -oci8 (-oci8-instant-client) -odbc -pcntl -pdo -pdo-external -pic -posix -postgres -qdbm -recode -sapdb -sharedext -sharedmem -simplexml -snmp -soap -sockets (-solid) -sqlite -suhosin (-sybase) (-sybase-ct) -sysvipc -threads -tokenizer -wddx -xmlreader -xmlrpc -xmlwriter -xpm -xsl -yaz -zip -zip-external"

a little explanation for what u see...
anything between use="......" is what we call use flags and can be turn on or off depending on what you want to be compiled....
tell me now the other package manager with such control...

The other half of the grand illusion consists of mucking about with compile flags. I doubt a lot of people could seriously sit down and explain what -O does. I mean, really does, not "it makes the programs more stable/fast". And when the compilation is done they sit back and say "yeah, I can tell it's faster/more stable". Please. Give me proof or stop saying that.


I'm sorry but that is a basic understanding of how compilers work. If you use a certain compiler flag u get advantages and disadvantages (speed over stability and vice versa). You can look in forums.gentoo.org. There are many discussions for optimization flags you can use.
Also consider that a binary distro needs to keep legacy so they compile the packages for generic architectures like i686 or older in order to work for such machines while gentoo and all the other source based distros are compiled exactly for the architecture of your cpu and that means that your programs take advantage of specific abilities that cpu engineers have added and you have payed for...

Reply Parent Score: 1