Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 15:46 UTC, submitted by Flatline
Mac OS X "The advent of Vista and Mac OS X, along with the ascension of Linux, add new dimensions to a long-time controversy. Now more than ever before, the Mac OS is the most cost effective operating system of all."
Thread beginning with comment 260721
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[3]: Heh
by protagonist on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 22:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Heh"
protagonist
Member since:
2005-07-06

"Here we go again... *rolls eyes*"

Roll your eyes all you want, but it won't change the facts. I bought my Power Mac four years ago and as part of the process I spec'ed out similarly equipped systems from Dell and Alienware. The Mac actually came in cheaper by several hundred dollars. And at the time I was a Windows user so I had no particular bias in favor of Apple.

You are making the same mistake most people do. Apple does not compete in the low end market so while it is true you can buy a PC far cheaper than a Mac, that is not true with equivalent systems. But I am sure this will not convince you if you already have your mind made up.

My experience is that buying high end, whether PC or Mac will ensure many years of service. But in my case, buying the Mac the last go around has proven to to be more cost effective. Very few four year old PC's will prove to be capable of running Vista without major upgrades. My four year old Power Mac will be able to run Leopard quite nicely with no upgrade costs other than the OS.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[4]: Heh
by Simba on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 22:18 in reply to "RE[3]: Heh"
Simba Member since:
2005-10-08

> Apple does not compete in the low end market so while it is true
> you can buy a PC far cheaper than a Mac, that is not true
> with equivalent systems.

Yes, it is true with equivalent systems as well. I can put together a PC that will run circles around The latest MacPro, and cost far less. And it will have more RAM, a bigger hard drive, and a better video card.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Heh
by phoenix on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 22:58 in reply to "RE[4]: Heh"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

Citations, links, proof, anything beyond "I can do this, trust me, it has to be true". ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Heh
by Simba on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 23:56 in reply to "RE[4]: Heh"
Simba Member since:
2005-10-08

> Citations, links, proof, anything beyond "I can do this, trust me,
> it has to be true". ;)

* Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4 Ghz with motherboard
* 4 Gb RAM (four times what the Mac Pro has)
* 500 Gb SATA hard disk (double the hard disk space of the Mac Pro)
* nvidia GEForce 8800GTS 640MB (far superior to the 7300 GT that the Mac Pro comes with, as well as more than double the video RAM.
* Dual 20x DVD-RW drives (The Mac Pro only comes with one. And it is only 16x)
* Antec Sonata III case with 500 Watt power supply

Total cost? $1252.40 USD

That's right around HALF of what the Mac Pro costs.. (The Mac Pro is $2499 USD) And the system I just speced out for you is vastly superior to the Mac Pro. Although the processor is slightly slower (2.4 Ghz, as opposed to 2.66 Ghz. An insignificant difference), the extra specs of this system more than make up for it. The system I speced out has 4 times the RAM, double the hard disk space, a far superior video card both in terms of speed, and the fact that it has over double the video RAM of the Mac Pro. And you get two DVD-RW drives, which are faster than the one that comes with the Mac Pro.

PC hardware prices have plumetted since Apple came out with the Mac Pro. But Apple has not lowered their prices.

btw, the system I speced out is one I put together at www.mwave.com. I have bought a lot of stuff from them, and am very happy with their service.

As I said, and have now proven. Apple can't even compete in the high end market. They can't even come close.

Edited 2007-08-04 00:04

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: Heh
by Dave_K on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 22:48 in reply to "RE[3]: Heh"
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

You are making the same mistake most people do. Apple does not compete in the low end market so while it is true you can buy a PC far cheaper than a Mac, that is not true with equivalent systems.


That's debatable, but the important point is that not everyone needs a computer that's the equivalent of an expensive Mac. For most office tasks even the cheapest modern system is more than adequate. A Mac may be a better and more powerful machine, but that extra power just isn't needed by most people.

A Mac may be a great choice in certain niche markets, but Apple don't make products that are ideal for a great many mainstream uses. When looking for a home or office computer, the limitations of the iMac or Mac Mini, and the high price of a Mac Pro, become very significant issues.

Personally I think it's a shame that Apple don't offer a relatively low end system like the Mac Mini, but with more of the flexibility demanded by many home and office users. Such a system wouldn't necessarily have to feel 'cheap' in the way many low cost PCs do.

Very few four year old PC's will prove to be capable of running Vista without major upgrades. My four year old Power Mac will be able to run Leopard quite nicely with no upgrade costs other than the OS.


That isn't accurate in my experience. I've found that a four year old PC such as a Pentium 4 or Athlon can run Vista quite reasonably. The only upgrade that would probably be necessary is RAM, which is a pretty cheap and easy upgrade. How much RAM did a low end Mac have as standard four years ago? Not enough to run the latest Mac OS X very well I'd guess.

Of course there's nothing stopping you from running XP for years to come on your older PC. The vast majority of applications are bound to maintain compatibility with the older OS while it's still popular. It'll be quite a while before all those XP installations in businesses and homes around the world have been replaced by Vista.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Heh
by google_ninja on Sat 4th Aug 2007 02:13 in reply to "RE[4]: Heh"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

totally agree. my girlfriend is planning on buying a pc in the next month or so. the budget is kind of tight, but i still advocated apple, as imho its the best os out there for someone who doesnt care HOW it works, just that it DOES work.

The specs were just too radically different for it to be viable.

Buying from a big chain, we have the very decent http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS100...
for 770$, that will run vista just fine (although, I am going to push her to up the ram to 2gb).

While over on apple.ca, the lowest end MacBook (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/canadastore.woa/66...)
sells for 1250$

That is a 480$ difference for the priviledge of running OSX. Not only that, but you lose 2.1in off the screen (the toshiba is even widescreen, which imho is the way of the future), and 40gb off the hard drive.

That is wayyyyy too big a difference to be viable.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Heh
by DeadFishMan on Sat 4th Aug 2007 00:21 in reply to "RE[3]: Heh"
DeadFishMan Member since:
2006-01-09

You must be American if you *REALLY* think that Apple computers are reasonable priced AT ALL!

I can buy a friggin' CAR with the amount of money that they charge for a brand new Intel-based Mac Pro here in Brazil! No matter how you try to put it: THIS IS WAY TOO EXPENSIVE, FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!

Even a lame G4 sells for about the price of the most powerful x86 rig that you can find around here and that's the reason that Macs are seen mostly on advertising agencies here and many still have old G4s or even Performas: because it is too expensive to keep up with it.

Believe me, as I would love to acquire Apple hardware and keep saving money whenever I can to buy a second-hand Mac: No matter how sexy OSX might look to people here, nobody other than really wealthy people wants them. Hell, you seldom see iPods on the subway, trains, buses or streets but you will see lots of devices from other vendors simply because they are affordable or that the price is just right.

Apple consciously priced itself out of the Brazilian market and I suspect that this is true for most of Latin America.

If you want to use your niche elitist product and have to keep telling yourself that you saved money and that the investment was worth, fine. But in the meantime please, spare us from the bullshit.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Heh
by protagonist on Sat 4th Aug 2007 19:03 in reply to "RE[4]: Heh"
protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

"If you want to use your niche elitist product and have to keep telling yourself that you saved money and that the investment was worth, fine. But in the meantime please, spare us from the bullshit."

If you have to resort to name calling you have already lost the argument.

What I said was true. I spec'ed out various systems and for what I needed the Mac was a bit cheaper. All the name calling in the world won't change that.

Reply Parent Score: 2