Paul Thurrot (there he is again) compares Vista Beta 1 to Tiger: "For Windows enthusiasts, Windows Vista Beta 1 is a much-needed demonstration that Microsoft can still churn out valuable Windows releases, after years of doubt. For Mac OS X users, however, Windows Vista Beta 1 engenders a sense of deja vu. Isn't a lot of this stuff already in Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger?"
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Member since:2005-07-02
All right, sorry for being so aggressive. It's that "Linux is Poo" poster. He gets under my skin! :-)
The only things I'd add are:
2) Apple seems to think that increased sales are not due to lower prices, but rather due to the "halo effect" of people buying iPods...it's true that lowering prices does not always mean increased sales - sometimes (especially with regards to "luxury" items) the reverse is actually true.
3) Apps looking out of place isn't unique to Linux. Lots of Windows apps look quite different from one another. On my desktop right now I have Lotus Notes, AlienBrain, Firefox, MS Word, MS Excel and UltraEdit. All have slightly different styles for widgets and menus, and different Open/Save dialogs. Is that making me less productive? I don't think so...
I really do believe this is fundamentally a non-issue.
Member since:2005-07-06
2) Could be true. I'm not very familiar with Apples sales, so I won't really comment on it further.
As far as toolkits and consistency goes. Think about it this way:
- A windows developer can choose to use the standard windows toolkit (whether directly through Win32API, MFC, or another wrapper) and KNOW they are providing a consistent interface and what users expect.
- A linux developer has to make a decision between toolkits. If they choose GTK+, people who use KDE will have an inconsistent interface. And the other way around as well.
Of course, there is windows software that chooses to provide their own interface style. That's poor design, usually. But they still had the choice to provide an interface they know would be consistent and expected. You follow me?
I don't think the lack of standard toolkit for Linux is hurting their "bottom line". But I do think it's a political issue that affects most end users. It's a double edged sword. Linux provides so much choice, which is why most geeks love it. But that much choice is overwhelming and confusing to most end-users. They don't want or need THAT much choice.
Yes, choice is good, but it should be compromised with some consistency and simplicity. I don't think Windows does a perfect job with this, but I do think they do much better than Linux in that aspect.
Windows still provides choice. In the case of GUI, XP has themes. But the choices are usually hidden from the end-user unless they know what they are doing. This gives the simplicity most users want, and still offers flexibility for the geeks that do use Windows still.
Member since:2005-07-06
"And again, if you think it's MS's marketing department doing the defending here, I think you are kidding yourself."
uh-huh...MS would never do anything under-handed like that would they?
http://www.users.qwest.net/~eballen1/msft.shilling.html
http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,17745,00.html
Member since:
2005-07-06
1) The toolkit is part of GDI. You use GDI and other win32api to make widgets. I did submit a correction to the article. MFC is not the same as GTK or Qt. GTK and Qt actual handle drawing the widgets and everything. MFC simply is a wrapper around win32api, which does all the work. There is a BIG difference there.
And if by linux user,y ou mean someone that uses it as their main OS, and is not simply TRYING to do so, then duh. They won't complain likely, because they are obviously happy enough to keep using it. What about the people that WANT to use and like linux, but complain? I've ran across those people. "Why does this application (GTK) look so out of place (running KDE)?"
2) Only recently have Macs become more affordable. And with this, we are seeing an increase in sales. And I do agree that the "multiple toolkits" isn't a big, or really even relevant, reason for windows maintaining its dominance. but that's not what I was trying to argue. Hardware WAS relevent for slow adoption of Macs.
3) I'm a linux developer, and I complain about it
4) Funny, I could say the exact same thing, but when people spread lies and misconceptions about Linux. And, believe me, it happens as often on OSNews as it does about Windows.
I'm not trying to criticize you for defending linux. You're not being trollish about it. I just don't completely agree with what you are labeling FUD. Personally, I think the anti-MS FUD is more slightly prevelant here, but that's me. The more obvious stuff does tend to get modded down FAST though, so it's usually not seen by most people.
And again, if you think it's MS's marketing department doing the defending here, I think you are kidding yourself.
P.S. the criticism towards Vista has also come from Windows users and enthusiasts disappointed at all the features that were announced and then cut.
Definitely. Some of the criticism is valid too. But the crap about there being no new features anymore.. no reason to upgrade.. that's all caused by the FUD spread by the anti-MS people. Just like some misconceptions about linux that are spread by anti-linux people. I try to defend the anti-MS/Vista FUD, and you try to defend the anti-linux FUD. That's just how it is.
Don't get me wrong though. I do defend linux, just rarely here. Why? Because there are lots of people here more informed and knowledgable about linux than me.