Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 15th Aug 2007 20:02 UTC, submitted by Raffaele
Amiga & AROS In a discussion on Amiga forum site The Amigans, the Friedens twin brothers (developers of AmigaOS 4.0 exec kernel) revealed that the complete Amiga OS architecture will move ahead to a new design. The new AmigaOS (let's call it AmigaOS 4+1) will include some sort of virtual environment in which old (AmigaOS 4.0) applications will run as separate tasks, in their own address space. MorphOS, an Amiga-like operating system, employs a similar method to allow for compatibility with older Amiga 3.x applications. AmigaWorld of course also discusses the matter.
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freaks
Member since:
2006-02-17

what about memory protection and utf8 support for example?
don't you think they are major issues too?

especialy memory protection. any badly behaving program can trash the whole system. that's what happen.. a lot!
countless crashs and reboot.
saying it's stable on your computer is simply not true.

everybody knows even best programs aren't 100% bug free.
and when the OS cannot manage programs thrashing memory or killing OS resources because of bugs or intentionnal malicious code, what happen is crash, reboot and total insecurity.

for example yesterday night i tryed latest Scalos desktop replacement. agreed it's still beta software, but since there isn't any form of protection in the system, i ended up crashing and rebooting something like 30 times in 4 hours time. this is inacceptable in 2007 for an operating system to let this happen.

if what i said wasn't true, why on earth do you think official OS4 development team are planning implementing memory protection in a future OS update at all ?

of course it's true. you cannot expect any user to select only good behaving applications and hope and pray
everything will go smooth. you cannot expect developpers to make 100% bug-free programs .. this is ridiculous.

i'm eagerly waiting for memory protection to be implemented in Amiga system

Edited 2007-08-16 08:45

Reply Parent Score: 1

Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

Mr Freaks wrote:

[quote]


what about memory protection and utf8 support for example?
don't you think they are major issues too?

[/quote]

Maybe you didn't noticed it but AmigaOS 4.0 HAS already memory protection...

BUT

...Old programs of Amiga can't support this feature.


So it is required that the OS design will move ahead.


And here came these news we are talking in this thread!

The new AmigaOS 4.0 Kernel with virtualization and protected memory will run as main OS...

...and old Kernel and old apps, will run into a sandbox with its own address space.


-----


Regarding UTF:

It is supported by single programs of Amiga. Some support it and some others no...

(IBrowse 2.4 browser for example supports UTF...

Programs like JKFF allows old classic Amiga to support and edit texts in UTF, but actual Notepad of OS 4.0 can't be used with JKFF...

http://www.phoenix-c.or.jp/~olfa/jkff/index.html

Support of UTF for entire AmigaOS will come in the future.

The Hyperion team decided to support first all modern features of the OS like Protected Memory, a core feature which absence of, it was really a trouble.

With the incoming of final version of OS 4.0, and its first update last july 2007, now they are free to focus on other minor problems and absence of other features like UTF.

-----


Regarding censorship on Amiga sites:

The Amigans site it is a very private club.

You can't enter there if you don't proof you have an AmigaONE computer.

How did you register on that site if you own no modern AmigaONE machine?????

They hate all discussion except those regarding AmigaOS and AmigaoNE computer.

For example, if you made the mistake to tell a single line about its Amiga competitor (MorphOS), you will be censored, or banned.

They are really zealots.

-----

Regarding Amigaworld.net, in the past there was also this hatred about MorphOS, so even some threads of mine about MorphOS were deleted, and comments edited.

Fortunately now Amigaorld it is more open to other solutions and different platform than OFFICIAL AmigaOS.

But as I read your previous posts, and you demonstrated you ignored completely that AmigaOS has ALREADY Protected memory, and judging from the style of your comments, it seems to me that you entered this discussion like an elephant in a crystal & glasses shop shouting:

«HEY! Where is Protected memory that is a modern feature?»

(Sorry, but this is the impression you gave to me...)

Then... if youm made the same on Amiga sites, showing you knows nothing of Amiga, and entered a discussion shouting, then the less it could happen to you it is to get your post deleted, because you seems acting like a troll.

Next time learn well about the AmigaOS matter, and try to enter in a discussion with a certain degree of style so you will avoid being moderated without a reason...

Reply Parent Score: 1

freaks Member since:
2006-02-17

@Raffaele

first you're wrong about JKFF .
JKFF is a program (system patch) to be able to display and input Japanese on Amiga. i know this well, cause i live in Japan, and helped the Morphos port to happen too, cause i live in Japan and need Japanese support.
Unfortunatly this program doesn't work on OS4 because of API changes Hyperion did. but i'm glad they did.
the OS need to evolve. it won't go anywere sticking to the old 3.x API.. so JKFF can be used from OS1.3 to OS3.9 and morphos too. you can test it, if you understand Japanese.


Then about memory protection on OS4.
OS4 only have partial memory protection so far (not full MP)
it isn't enough to prevent system crashs.
(see my ealier post about when i tested Scalos for example..)


Regarding me posting on Amigans.net:
i own an AmigaOne XE (G4 model) So i think i fit well in the picture ;)
in the past i had a Pegasos with Morphos too, but i sold it.. this is another topic. but suffice to say i didn't liked morphos devs and morphos itself. it's even more sticking to the old Amiga OS3.x API from 1993 than OS4 does. for my point of view morphos stagnate instead of moving foward.

and for the record i owned many Amiga , mainly an A1200 and an A4000 both with PPC accelerator and gfx cards.
i have now an AmigaOne with OS4 and had a pegasos too.
i know quite well what i'm talking about thanks ;)

the problem isn't Scalos crashing. it's beta software.
the problem is when Scalos crash, the whole system freeze , crash or reboot.. it bring down the whole machine ;)

if there was MP, then OS4 would kill the badly behaving app *before* it could endanger the whole OS ..

Any other program can take the whole system down.
IBrowse, does it quite well too , in fact,
the OS itself crash on it's own too.
moving some files around , copying, deleting.. %...%.. and ooops.. reboot

Edited 2007-08-16 10:46

Reply Parent Score: 0

Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

Mr. Freaks wrote:

[quote]


for example yesterday night i tryed latest Scalos desktop replacement. agreed it's still beta software, but since there isn't any form of protection in the system, i ended up crashing and rebooting something like 30 times in 4 hours time. this is inacceptable in 2007 for an operating system to let this happen.

[/quote]

What is your system configuration?

What are the programs you have installed, and the libraries revision numbers?

With classic Amigas, you can made easily a new partition, and install a base AmigaOS on it.

Enter the BOOTMENU and exclude all different partition, except the one in which you want to install ScalOS.

Then try to install Scalos on the minimal system you just realized and booted from exclusively.

If the installation crashes again on this minimal system, so it is ScalOS that it is bugged.

If the installation of ScalOS performs successfully, then you must find the programs that entered in conflict with Scalos on your main installation...

And in the end, remember that install new programs on AmigaOS or remove it, then it is far more easier than in other systems!

In facts you can spot immediately by view, what are the new directories added, the new libraries into LIBS:, and the modifications to Startup-Sequence file, and delete it by hand.

So even if ScalOS crashes, you can remove it immediately.

And it is the same if you want to change Startup-sequence and exclude some libraries from loading at boot...

It requires only that you put (copy) new libraries taken from Aminet in a single directory and do typing some ASSIGN command in textual Shell..

Assign Libs: dh0:new_libraries_directory

Assigns the logical path for the OS to find where system libraries are located, and replaces it with the path to the new libraries directory.

It is not a permantent change, and you can made experiments if the problems to ScalOS are the old system libraries.

Again, you can verify if ScalOS enters in conflict with other programs, by editing any single program entry and excluding it from boot (Startup-Sequence file).

In startup-sequence you can UNCHECK a line by typing a semicolon ";" preceding it.


[the program it is loaded]

DH0:Utilities/AmigaDOCk


[the program it is not loaded]

; DH0:Utilities/AmigaDOCk



Try it alternate, on any single program you load at startup...


Good luck!


P.S.: Aminet site

http://www.aminet.net

Edited 2007-08-16 10:13

Reply Parent Score: 1