Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 30th Aug 2007 20:16 UTC, submitted by superstoned
KDE The article yesterday on KDE4 triggered both Sebastian Kuegler and Aaron Seigo to respond via their blogs. Kuegler writes: "The Free Desktop and KDE have come a long way during the last years. There have been various huge changes in KDE's social structure, in it's infrastructure and of course in the sourcecode itself. I've split this into three different areas where I think a shift in paradigm has taken place." Seigo writes: "Mark my words: KDE4 is a revolution unfolding and you're getting to watch it all happen from the very beginning."
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Marketing speak?
by sappyvcv on Thu 30th Aug 2007 20:48 UTC
sappyvcv
Member since:
2005-07-06

Seigo writes: "Mark my words: KDE4 is a revolution unfolding and you're getting to watch it all happen from the very beginning."

Coming from a person who has invested so much time into the project, either:
(a) You can take their word because they fully understand where things are and where they are going
(b) You can't take their word because they've invested so much time into it that they want to sell it as much as they can. Of course they'll say this and that about it.

I'm not sure which to believe. Aaron seems to have been awfully defensive in the past though.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Marketing speak?
by shiny on Thu 30th Aug 2007 20:54 in reply to "Marketing speak?"
shiny Member since:
2005-08-09

I don't think they have an interest in "selling" you anything... Just wait and see, and judge for yourself. It's that simple.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE: Marketing speak?
by DevL on Thu 30th Aug 2007 21:48 in reply to "Marketing speak?"
DevL Member since:
2005-07-06

Before KDE 4 surpasses, say Mac OS X, I would hardly call it an unfolding revolution. Incremental evolution, certainly.

So to answer you question: yes, marketing speech.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: Marketing speak?
by aseigo on Thu 30th Aug 2007 22:21 in reply to "Marketing speak?"
aseigo Member since:
2005-07-06

> Before KDE 4 surpasses, say Mac OS X

i find this comment quite interesting. what does it -mean- exactly to "surpass Mac OS X"? i hear such cloaked comparisons but am not sure i actually understand what it means to people. i could make a guess, but i'm more interested in what you actually think.

> Incremental evolution, certainly.

ah, you see, you missed the point of my blog then. let me try fewer words:

revolution is what you think you've seen when you've missed out on all the evolutionary steps that have occurred previously. now, not all evolutionary trends result in revolutions, but all revolutions are, actually, evolutionary.

so the trick becomes this: if you can see the various evolutionary processes, can you tell the difference between the ones that will result in revolutionary ends and the ones that won't?

for most people the answer is "no", mostly due to a lack of deep understanding of what they are seeing. (i wouldn't be able to see most revolutions occurring either; my expertise, such as it is, is also limited to a finite number of domains)

this is why most entities try and do as much quietly and then reveal the end results only in an attempt to make the revolutionare aspects more easily apparent. often, it is also used as a way to try and make the completely mundane *appear* revolutionary simply through the apparent gaps in the storyline.

and to bring it all back on topic, what i'm attempting to convey (almost certainly in futility given the complexity of the concept) is that saying something isn't working towards a revolutionary end just because you can also see the evolutionary process of its creation during its creation (which pretty much sums up the "is kde4 revolutionary?" meme) is a false conclusion.

> yes, marketing speech.

more vague words. if all public speaking is marketing, in that it is intended to support the topical item, then .. ok ... that's pretty broad. if by "marketing speech" you mean "empty, vapid, without real meaning" then i'd like to inform you that, at least for me, that's not what it is.

i'm actually sharing my actual thought on actual matters. if it is convincing, bully. if it isn't, i'm still going to share. it's up to you to read or not, reply or not. but don't dismiss things out of hand.

i mean, how would you feel if i characterized your comment as being the naivety typical of users? it's probably unfair and inaccurate, even if it would be quite a tidy way to dismiss you from my perspective.

Reply Parent Score: 19

RE[3]: Marketing speak?
by KugelKurt on Fri 31st Aug 2007 09:31 in reply to "RE[2]: Marketing speak?"
KugelKurt Member since:
2005-07-06

i find this comment quite interesting. what does it -mean- exactly to "surpass Mac OS X"? i hear such cloaked comparisons but am not sure i actually understand what it means to people. i could make a guess, but i'm more interested in what you actually think.


IMHO there are two areas about that comment:
Objective and subjective.

The objective area is the one where KDE actually lacks features.
The subjective area is the one where KDE has that features, but lacks marketing.


While not every aspect of OS X is great, the overall package is pretty awesome.
Compare Kopete to iChat for example. Yeah, Kopete supports more protocols, but that's about it. iChat is easy and fun. iChat sends h.264/AVC-encoded video chat streams over Jabber for ages and does crazy things with it. Both are open standards with free implementations. You can't tell me that for a somewhat skilled developer it's that hard to add.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/ichat/
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/ichat.html

Another things that's missing is iLife. It's technically not a part of Mac OS X, but every Mac ships with it, so the general reception is that iLife is part of OS X. Maybe I missed something, but I can't remember seeing something like iMovie for KDE.
I hadn't the chance to try Freecycle yet, but it looks like a promising GarageBand alternative.

KDE is also missing some sort of creative suite. I know about Krita, Karbon, and Scribus. Marketing Krita and Karbon as a part of KOffice is a bit hard. And I'm not talking about developing a separate creative suite or splitting Krita and Karbon from KOffice source code. Just do separate marketing and include Scribus is that virtual package.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Marketing speak?
by aseigo on Thu 30th Aug 2007 22:31 in reply to "Marketing speak?"
aseigo Member since:
2005-07-06

> invested so much time into the project,

yes, i suppose it does require you to make a value judgement about my person. how fun to do that in public! =)

there is also another aspect to throw into the mix: perhaps the person got involved and so invested because of the things they are now speaking about. that doesn't help you in your answer, but it does add a bit more of the complexity that is really there imho.

> seems to have been awfully defensive

fortunately it's not my only dimension.

to not defend one's ideas, thoughts and actions has become part of the popular culture, which is to say that standing up it is often perceived as disruptive, unpopular and controversial. the term used most often, and often innaccurately, is "you're being defensive".

there is true defensiveness, where every action is simply a preventative one. look at my entire body of work and i think you'll see that isn't the case.

but to never stand up is to capitulate to the whims of others, and to never stand up on topics where you have feel conviction and have put your own efforts in is, imho, a character flaw.

the trick is to balance between being a push over sop and a reasonable individual who knows when to be quiet as well and, perhaps most importantly, always be able to listen (even when you yourself are sharing the speaking floor).

feel free to correct me on that one, though. =)

Reply Parent Score: 11

RE[2]: Marketing speak?
by SReilly on Fri 31st Aug 2007 00:14 in reply to "RE: Marketing speak?"
SReilly Member since:
2006-12-28

Very well put and thank you for pointing that out.

It's nice to know that some of us are more than willing to stick up for our ideals without feeling the need to wrap everything in cotton wool.

Plus, you do it with style and without malice. truly class! :-)

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Marketing speak?
by postmodern on Fri 31st Aug 2007 00:51 in reply to "Marketing speak?"
postmodern Member since:
2006-01-27

Or one could look at the source-code. Look at their overall design and what features KDE4 implements.

That would seem to be more informative than reading into developer's blog posts.

Reply Parent Score: 2