Linked by Joost van der Sluis on Mon 10th Sep 2007 16:03 UTC
General Development Recently, Free Pascal (FPC) version 2.2.0 was released. This open source Pascal compiler has - since its initial release in 1993 - grown to be one of the most sophisticated open source compilers available today. Daily, more programmers discover FPC and develop their applications in Object Pascal. Specifically, the development of Lazarus has contributed to this phenomenon: Lazarus is a graphical open source IDE for FPC, with an extensive tool kit to design graphical (GUI) applications.
Thread beginning with comment 270211
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[2]: Lazarus
by FooBarWidget on Tue 11th Sep 2007 08:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Lazarus"
FooBarWidget
Member since:
2005-11-11

Why is GTK2 dependency a problem? I don't know any post-2004 Linux desktop system that doesn't have GTK2 installed. I think it's safe to say that 99% of Linux *desktop* systems have GTK2.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Lazarus
by ggeldenhuys on Tue 11th Sep 2007 09:59 in reply to "RE[2]: Lazarus"
ggeldenhuys Member since:
2006-11-13

Why is GTK2 dependency a problem? I don't know any post-2004 Linux desktop system that doesn't have GTK2 installed. I think it's safe to say that 99% of Linux *desktop* systems have GTK2.


NO, not all distros come with GTK2. Kubuntu or any other KDE based distro doesn't come with GTK1 or GTK2. A bare bones X Window system (Linux or FreeBSD) comes with some lightweight window manager. Normally not with Gnome or some other GTK2 base WM.

Also installing GTK2 afterwards is normally a pain. It's not just a single package. It's gtk, gtk-comon, gdk, pango etc... A lot of packages just to get a GTK2 app running. Then lets talk about different versions on GTK2. Distro's are normally behind compared to the latest GTK2 version available, so your applications will have a hell of a time trying to run if it was designed with the latest GTK2.

Talking directly to XLib (like fpGUI does) removes all those problems! And your applications will run, no matter what lightweight or heavy WM you have installed.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Lazarus
by anda_skoa on Tue 11th Sep 2007 12:40 in reply to "RE[3]: Lazarus"
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

NO, not all distros come with GTK2. Kubuntu or any other KDE based distro doesn't come with GTK1 or GTK2.


Might be true for GTK1, but I am pretty sure every distribution ships GTK2 and Qt3, especially since the two are part of the library set specified by the LSB.

Also installing GTK2 afterwards is normally a pain. It's not just a single package.


All distribution package managers do dependency resolution, don't they?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Lazarus
by FooBarWidget on Tue 11th Sep 2007 18:36 in reply to "RE[3]: Lazarus"
FooBarWidget Member since:
2005-11-11

I didn't say all. I said most. And which distribution today doesn't support automatic dependency resolution? If I type 'apt-get install gtk2' then APT will automatically install whatever extra dependencies it has. Even FreeBSD's ports supports auto-installing dependencies.

I dare to say that if people refuse to install GTK in order to use your app, then your app is not worth installing anyway. Likewise, if a good app is written in QT, and I need that app, then I will make sure I have QT. I don't care about the GNOME/KDE "war". Even commercial apps like VMWare and BitRock Installer depend on GTK2 and they don't seem to be losing customers because of that.

Sure, there are hardcore geeks out there that absolutely to refuse GTK/QT (note that I didn't say GNOME/KDE) or other "bloat" because they're running a Pentium 300 with 64 MB RAM (or just because of irrational elitism), but those people consist of, like, 1% of the market. I'd gladly trade that market share with the amount of development time I save by using a good GUI toolkit.
It's a good thing to care about users and to minimize dependencies, but at some point there will be a point of diminishing returns. And I believe anything below GTK2/QT lies past that point.


"Distro's are normally behind compared to the latest GTK2 version available, so your applications will have a hell of a time trying to run if it was designed with the latest GTK2."

But what does that have to do with you, the developer? Just don't use the most recent GTK APIs and stick to the subset of APIs that were introduced in GTK 2.4 or something. The GTK API docs specifically mention the version where an API is introduced.

Edited 2007-09-11 18:42

Reply Parent Score: 4