Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 10th Sep 2007 21:01 UTC
In the News It does not happen every day that news related to computer technology - news we report on every day - makes its way to the headline news programs and newspapers here in my home country, The Netherlands. So when it does, I am usually on the edge of my seat, simply because it offers an interesting glimpse into how 'normal' people perceive our little world. The last few days, however, that casual interest has made way for something else - tooth gnashing irritation.
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RE[3]: My own experience...
by jabbotts on Tue 11th Sep 2007 19:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: My own experience..."
jabbotts
Member since:
2007-09-06

You sudgest examples which makes your comment valid.

No one outside of the Zealot minority says to not use Windows or a closed source program when that is the only solution to your problem. I was simply asking for the examples the initial post felt made Linux inappropriate. Heck, Mr. Stallman recommends using closed source when no other solution is available though only until one becomes available.

Too you, I'd ask; are you looking for specific functions or specific brand names of software? Some functions are only offered by specialized software such as Adobe and for the minority of users who can truly use Photoshop's advanced features the decision is either Windows or osX. My education used VB and VC++ and ColdFusion as programming training aids so until recently picking up PHP my decision was limited to Studio.NET if I wanted to code anything.

(oh damn is PHP slick, it's like discovering ColdFusion all over again but with more power)

In reality, there are far fewer instances where a function on one OS platform is not at all available on another software platform. Heck, I could do what I do with my prefered Linux distro on Windows or osX but in both the later cases, it wouldn't be nearly as easy to setup or constomize to my needs.

Business software is no different from any other software applications. Of course, if you choose Exchange Server then MS broken standards make a series of decisions for you resulting from that one groupware product (requires winServer, requires AD, requires Outlook which forces winWorkstation.. and such is the lock-in business strategy built.)

Mind you, something like eGroupware does 95% of what Exchange Server does plus a bunch of stuff it doesn't do and you can pick from five or more client programs that work seamlessly with it or just use a browser like most big busines apps are doing these days. Oh, and it runs on a *nix back end so you get the added efficiency and security. It's PHP based though so you could possibly install it over a winServer/IIS combo but that's like putting an Tuxedo on a steaming turd.

Cheers for the response though, I asked in my original post too get examples so you've added to the conversation.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[4]: My own experience...
by cyclops on Tue 11th Sep 2007 21:46 in reply to "RE[3]: My own experience..."
cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

"No one outside of the Zealot minority says to not use Windows or a closed source program when that is the only solution to your problem. I was simply asking for the examples the initial post felt made Linux inappropriate. Heck, Mr. Stallman recommends using closed source when no other solution is available though only until one becomes available."

@jabbotts Zealot is both offensive and inappropriate.

Unfortunately for you. It is you that is in the minority, nobody here will agree with you that access to source is not the best way to ensure that your products stay compatible. I don't even have to talk open-source. Even before open-source hit mainstream it was common to discuss the advantages of bespoke applications vs those from proprietary vendors. Linux the kernel is just an extreme example. Source code is like gold to companies wanting to prevent lock-in; tailored to use software etc etc.

"My education used VB and VC++ and ColdFusion" I'm glad that you point out VB as that many developers regret choosing for their applications after VB6 was dropped. I'm actually surprised that ColdFusion is about at all.

Reply Parent Score: 1

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

That was the poing; "Zealot" is an offensive term and if you read my comment you'll notice that I'm saying that only the Zealot minority within the FOSS greater community go around telling people that Linux is the only solution in *every* situation. Unfortunately, these are usually also the loudest spoken and oh how the anti-FOSS people like to point to the smaller minority like it represents us all.

(see what I did there? I used "us" being that I've run Linux based OS since before Redhat removed .mp3 support and forked off Fedora that that was when I moved to Mandrake, now Mandriva.)

My intent was to point out that the minority are the only people saying that one kernel fits all; this to head off anyone that was going to think they spoke for all of us. Hense why I mentioned that *even* Mr. Stallman recommends using closed source and/or proprietary software when no other solution fitting the problem is available and then *only* until a more open solution becomes available. In short; use the ATI binary blob if it works for you but change to the open source kernel mod when it becomes available and mature enough to replace the blob.

"Unfortunately for you. It is you that is in the minority, nobody here will agree with you that access to source is not the best way to ensure that your products stay compatible"

Unfortunately nothing big guy. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was bashing FOSS but that seems to be what you indicate in your response. I'd sudgest reading the initial post *then* my response too it and subsiquent responses too and from myself along down the thread.

And by "even before OSS hit mainstream" do you mean;
a. before the MIT model railroad club came out from under the table and discovered these crazy digital adding machine contraptions

b. before the hacker community moved to Unix from VMS

c. before a young computer enclined business genious wrote a very offensive public letter to the homebrew computer club

d. before Mr. Stallman publicly outlined the hacker communities reasons for freedom of source with GPLv1

e. before Mr. Raymond wrote the Cathedral and the Bizzar

f. before Netscape joined with Mr. Raymond to create opensource.org and release there browser source under the Mozilla name

g. (or) before Microsoft realized this "internet" thing may be relavent and that that obscure "linux" kernel thingy was a serious potential threat to there status quo

I'm not sure which greater increase in FOSS becoming main stream your refering too. My god man; I may show a new registration date but I've been reading osnews forums for a while and mucking with the inner workings of the machine for a heck of a lot longer. There's pleanty of topics I lack knowledge on but computers and computer history isn't one of them.

Are you sure that I'm really in the minority here that would argue that closed and proprietary development models result in the better programming or did you maybe jump to a conclusion too quickly? I'm just not understand where I slammed open source development to give you any such idea. I may have kept my comment balanced rather than going to the Zealot or Fanboy extremes of the spectrum but that just makes for a reasonable discussion.

Here's a quarter kid, go buy yourself some reading comprehension lessons. I'd give you the whole 50 cents but I need the other quarter for my own spelling and grammar lessons. ;)

Anyway, I'd take offense but really I'm just boggled and falling off my chair laughing at how badly my comment was read. Stick around kid, you may realize the shots your taking are all friendly fire.

hehe.. as a complete tangent, I'm laughing loud at the here "cyclops" responds to "jabbotts". Unless your also a monocular (that's a big word meaning "only has vision in one eye") person then that's just all kinds of irony. Cheers, it was an unexpected bit of humour that'll keep me giggling all day.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[4]: My own experience...
by polaris20 on Wed 12th Sep 2007 04:23 in reply to "RE[3]: My own experience..."
polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

Specific tasks that are not possible in an open source counterpart, or not anywhere near as usable. There are a lot of examples of this in the legal, accounting, and engineering, and graphic arts fields.

Reply Parent Score: 1