Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 3rd Oct 2007 19:39 UTC, submitted by gonzo
.NET (dotGNU too) "One of the things my team has been working to enable has been the ability for .NET developers to download and browse the source code of the .NET Framework libraries, and to easily enable debugging support in them. Today I'm excited to announce that we'll be providing this with the .NET 3.5 and VS 2008 release later this year. We'll begin by offering the source code (with source file comments included) for the .NET Base Class Libraries, ASP.NET, Windows Forms, ADO.NET, XML, and WPF. We'll then be adding more libraries in the months ahead (including WCF, Workflow, and LINQ). The source code will be released under the Microsoft Reference License."
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Microsoft Reference License
by anomie on Wed 3rd Oct 2007 20:02 UTC
anomie
Member since:
2007-02-26

Make sure you read the fine print on the license.

This is not OSS. It's a "read-only" license.

One of the more prominent theories circulating around goes something like this:
* MS gives read-only access to .NET source code.
* Developers review it. (Maybe mono developers?)
* Lawsuit time. Evidence shows that you looked at our code. MS kills mono or [insert_app_here].

Almafeta Member since:
2007-02-22

This is not OSS. It's a "read-only" license.


Yeah. In their dreams, maybe... if you release code, it's going to be used by someone else.

I predict, in one year's time, several "competing" versions of .NET will be released, whose sole change will be to occasionally launch advertisements. They will have no technical advantage over vanilla .NET, but they will get broadly advertised, and will be widely adopted by the 50% of the Internet composed of the MySpace generation. These flawed copies will make MS scramble to explain why their cross-platform .NET programs don't work on Imperfect .NET Implementation XYZ, damaging their reputation, and they'll only have themselves to blame for releasing the code in the first place.

Edited 2007-10-03 21:24

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: -1

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

They will have no technical advantage over vanilla .NET, but they will get broadly advertised, and will be widely adopted by the 50% of the Internet composed of the MySpace generation.

I'm trying to think of a concrete example of what you're describing that has already happened in the *real world* today...

Considering the amount of open-source code already out there, I would expect this is to be a common problem (where 50% of the internet uses rip-off versions and thinks it is the real thing)...

Edited 2007-10-03 21:32

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 4

SReilly Member since:
2006-12-28

...damaging their reputation, and they'll only have themselves to blame for releasing the code in the first place.

Which side of their reputation are you talking about?

The side that is known for keeping interoperability information under lock and key so they can continue to monopolies their position as the world's no1 desktop?

The side that is known to invite partners to develop for their platform only to release a competing product and bundle it for free with their OS?

The side that bullies OEMs into offering systems with only their OS preinstalled?

The side that is known for trying to take over the internet with an inferior product, then providing operating systems without the security mechanisms needed to securely connect to said internet there by leaving the door open for scrip kiddies to run riot causing millions of dollars in downtime and damages?

How about the side that bankrolls other companies to threatens the only thing it can't buy, steal from or muscle out of the IT industry, i.e. Linux, and when that fails, starts threatening with bogus IP violation charges it is unwilling (read unable) to provide any evidence for?

If MS is damaging it's reputation, surely that's a good thing?

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 10

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

These flawed copies will make MS scramble to explain why their cross-platform .NET programs don't work on Imperfect .NET Implementation XYZ, damaging their reputation, and they'll only have themselves to blame for releasing the code in the first place.


How does this differ from any OSS project? Forks happen all the time. That's the risk of releasing source code.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 0

wirespot Member since:
2006-06-21

Lawsuit time. Evidence shows that you looked at our code. MS kills mono or [insert_app_here].


So what if you look at the code? In most parts of the world the only problem is copyright, and it's not an issue unless you copy and paste the code. Or, to make absolutely sure, you use "clean room" development, where one developer looks at the original code, tells another what it does and the second developer writes new code from scratch, with the same functionality.

Software patents or reverse engineering are an issue only in some countries.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 2

Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Yes, but all Microsoft have to do is make the allegations. They don't have to back them up, or prove them conclusively. Microsoft can claim that such and such app is breaking the licence, and it's up to the app writers to prove otherwise, not Microsoft. MS fires off some cease and desists to the ISP, and before you know it, Microsoft have spun an allegation into an anti-open source, anti non MS-vendor bit of PR.

There's only so many ways you can make a simple function return an answer. Making other programmers have to tip toe around Microsoft's specific implementation will slow down development and increase administration. Just look at the audit that had to be done on ReactOS because of Microsoft allegations.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 7

wirespot Member since:
2006-06-21

Yes, but all Microsoft have to do is make the allegations. They don't have to back them up, or prove them conclusively.


Yes they do. If you bring charges of copyright infringement you have to back them up. Of course you do.

I don't see what ISP's have to do with this. If you meant hosting companies, they usually check around. They don't boot their paying customers for allegations alone.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 2

hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

ah, its "shared-source" ;)

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 2

Nice
by Xaero_Vincent on Thu 4th Oct 2007 01:06 in reply to "RE: Microsoft Reference License"
Xaero_Vincent Member since:
2006-08-18

This "source release" isn't anything like "open source" but perhaps it will help the Mono developers. That would be a good thing.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 2

RE: Microsoft Reference License
by Hiev on Thu 4th Oct 2007 01:24 in reply to "Microsoft Reference License"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

wow, purist trolls have become masters in the art of speculation.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 2

Touvan Member since:
2006-09-01

Microsoft's track record means they are going to have to prove they don't have those kinds of nefarious goals.

However, I think some good could actually come out of this. If there are any perceptible people in charge over there, they may start to notice better bug reports, maybe even receive a few high quality patches, and some of the other benefits that come from open source, and begin to really understand the advantages.

Again, they are going to have to demonstrate that they are not evil though. There's just too much history.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 2