Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 26th Oct 2007 12:08 UTC
Mac OS X Today, Apple is unleashing Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard onto the world. It's already available to people in Australia and New Zealand (you liking it, Kaiwai?), and Europe and the US will follow later today. There's an article on what's new for Ruby developers, while others want to figure out what Leopard means to the 'enterprise' (I love those silly business terms). Update by AS: My copy of Leopard was slated for a 10AM delivery, but didn't arrive. I called FedEx and a CSR told me that an internal memo was just released; Apple has apparently waved the shipping deadline for all packages today and requested delivery be rescheduled at the end of the business day. Update 2 by AS: Ok, we've received our copy. How about you other US'ers?
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Why should anyone be happy
by Damind on Fri 26th Oct 2007 14:44 UTC
Damind
Member since:
2006-06-08

Why should anyone be happy about this? It is mostly a closed sourced OS and can only run on apple hardware. I really do not get most of you people, you bash MS so much about how closed sourced and controlling they are but none of you same that about apple which is even more controlling than MS. Why isn't the iPOD open and is able to work seamlessly on Linux as it does on Windows and MAC? Come on, even if they do not want to do it they could have made it possible for other programmers to do this, but they have not done that. I will not buy anything that is locking me in and that is what apple is doing. No please do not get me wrong they make really beautiful products but we need to stick to our principles and not get could up by the eye candy of things and lose our way.

Stop giving these companies so much power, just because they make a good looking product. The products should meet your values.

Reply Score: 7

RE: Why should anyone be happy
by Seph on Fri 26th Oct 2007 15:11 in reply to "Why should anyone be happy"
Seph Member since:
2007-10-26

And what makes you think that most people share your valuess? Some people, in fact alot of people don't care if a product is open or closed source, they just want something that works for them.

Reply Parent Score: 14

Harald Member since:
2006-03-10

And what makes you think that most people share your valuess? Some people, in fact alot of people don't care if a product is open or closed source, they just want something that works for them.

Exactly. There is software in a lot of stuff these days...from toasters to your car.

Are we to believe all the holier-than-thou open source zealots check their cars for open source software as a condition to buying it?

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Why should anyone be happy
by Buck on Fri 26th Oct 2007 15:32 in reply to "Why should anyone be happy"
Buck Member since:
2005-06-29

Because, as Kaiwai said, first and foremost, it's exciting!
Remember Amiga. Remember BeOS. They were closed-source, yet people were excited about using (and developing) them daily. In the end, that's what matters.

Reply Parent Score: 7

renox Member since:
2005-07-06

And that's also why BeOS is dead now..

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Why should anyone be happy
by kaiwai on Fri 26th Oct 2007 15:51 in reply to "Why should anyone be happy"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Could you please inform me what a MAC is? I know what a Mac is, its short for Macintosh but as far as I know, MAC is "Media Access Control" - how can an operating system run on top of a technology that sits inside a NIC? confusion abound.

Oh, and as for Linux - why should I run an operating system which has no choice what so ever - by virtue of the fact that none of my applications or hardware is supported.

So lets look at the situation. Mac in one corner with choice, ease of use and a wide variety of hardware that 'just works'(tm) vs. Linux whether something works is a hit or missed based on whether someone one can hack to pieces something to get it to work.

I don't know about you, but it appears to me that you're completely out of touch with what people like me want. I want to use my computer, I want to run the applications I like, I want my hardware to work out of the box without things partially or not even supported.

As an end user, I don't care about the any of the excuses you pull out of your hat, I just want it to work - that is why Linux isn't attractive to me or the vast majority of end users. How about instead of lambasting me and users who are happy with their Mac/Windows machine, you get your contraption working properly so that it is actually a viable alternative to more than just the geeky fringe of the IT world.

Edited 2007-10-26 15:55

Reply Parent Score: 9

atriq Member since:
2007-10-18

Aside: LOL at the no choice for Linux apps... Usually the argument is Linux has far too many software choices and that the devs should focus on just a couple of them. But I guess someone could come to that conclusion if they were trying to install iWorks and MS Office; rather than OO.org, koffice, goffice, Star Office, Applixware, etc.

Really it just sounds to me that you've just decided that Linux won't work and have modelled your software and hardware requirements around that. Whatever man, I'm going to go play some Quake Wars (real people do that, right?), you should go get that for your Mac, it's a lot of fun on my linux desktop and notebook... and it just works ;)

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Why should anyone be happy
by leos on Fri 26th Oct 2007 17:05 in reply to "RE: Why should anyone be happy"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

Could you please inform me what a MAC is? I know what a Mac is, its short for Macintosh but as far as I know, MAC is "Media Access Control" - how can an operating system run on top of a technology that sits inside a NIC? confusion abound.


Yes, yes, the OP typed it as uppercase when it shouldn't be. We are all impressed by your superior pedantry.

So lets look at the situation. Mac in one corner with choice, ease of use and a wide variety of hardware that 'just works'(tm) vs. Linux whether something works is a hit or missed based on whether someone one can hack to pieces something to get it to work.


Ha. Mac the cornerstone of choice and a wide variety of hardware? Please. By all measures, Windows is the king of choice when it comes to software and hardware available. Linux and Mac are approximately equal.

I want to run the applications I like, I want my hardware to work out of the box without things partially or not even supported.


Great, you like the Apple apps, and your Apple hardware works with it (shocking).
Using the argument that Linux doesn't support your hardware is retarded, since you specifically bought hardware that Apple supports. Do the same for Linux, and guess what, everything will "just work".

How about instead of lambasting me and users who are happy with their Mac/Windows machine, you get your contraption working properly so that it is actually a viable alternative to more than just the geeky fringe of the IT world.


I have no problems with you enjoying your Mac (it's a nice platform, just a little too locked down for my taste). I just get annoyed when people make sweeping generalizations about what "the vast majority of end users" want and thinks everyone choosing a different alternative is doing it just to be geeky, and not because it actually works better.

Reply Parent Score: 6

Oliver Member since:
2006-07-15

MAC, short for mandatory access control a technology of TrustedBSD.

http://www.trustedbsd.org/mac.html

I don't like Mac's (anymore), but they are of course superior to this KDE/Gnome/Vista bloatware.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Weeman Member since:
2006-03-20

So lets look at the situation. Mac in one corner with choice, ease of use and a wide variety of hardware that 'just works'(tm)

You've gotta be shitting us. There's no such thing as a wide variety when it comes to hardware for the Mac. And no surprise that things just work, because OSX only runs on a very small subset of hardware, which doesn't require a lot of testing to make sure nothing screws up the system.

OSX is a nice system, but you Mac folks should stop overhyping it. Especially when it comes to things like just works.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Why should anyone be happy
by SlackerJack on Fri 26th Oct 2007 16:19 in reply to "Why should anyone be happy"
SlackerJack Member since:
2005-11-12

Actually OS X is rather open for a propriety OS, they release sources for there updates and kernel, thats pretty much why you can run it on a PC. Since when has Windows been like this?

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Why should anyone be happy
by meianoite on Fri 26th Oct 2007 16:23 in reply to "Why should anyone be happy"
meianoite Member since:
2006-04-05

Stop giving these companies so much power, just because they make a good looking product. The products should meet your values.


Do you pay for quality food? Or you always grow your own fruit and vegetables, and only depend on the friendliness of your neighbours to provide you the fruit you can't grow yourself?

(I'm hoping the analogy is obvious here, so I won't draw a side-by-side comparison.)

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Why should anyone be happy
by sanctus on Fri 26th Oct 2007 16:35 in reply to "Why should anyone be happy"
sanctus Member since:
2005-08-31

One problem with windows is not only that it's closed source, but more because the business tactics.

While on my Mac I have an open source Darwin, an open source html engine, fully access to open source language such as python, java, ruby etc. On my Mac I code solution that work everywhere. The problem with Microsoft is that they always tried to kill things they didn't bring to the market and put everyone aside.

Plus like others said. It simply works, even if it brings the new stuff (the fun). They make things simple but efficient. Apple has a vision and ideal that are inspiring and fun.

Just look at exposť. When it first appeared everyone was crying out how useless it was. Exposť gives a productivity boost to everyone who uses it well. Now Microsoft in their lack of innovation just copied it. Well they copied the cool 3d effect, but they forgot about the usability part. Linux, compiz and beryl appear, they merge, they bring like apple eyes candy and a productivity boost. But how the hell is the interface so geekish. But hey, that's powerful, you can even make a 0.001 variation ..

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Why should anyone be happy
by bousozoku on Fri 26th Oct 2007 18:23 in reply to "Why should anyone be happy"
bousozoku Member since:
2006-01-23

Sorry, but the product does meet my values and Macs, iPods, and Mac OS X work very well indeed.

Contrast this to my Ubuntu experiment where things work, but poorly. Yes, the software update is as nice as Apple's and...oh, wait, that's it.

I believe in available software that works for me with a minimum of fuss and almost anything available for a Mac does that. Some software for Linux is better than that for Windows and some is worse, but the quality rarely approaches the quality of software for Mac OS X.

I want Linux to work. I want a path out, but as long as interfaces are designed by committee, sorry, it won't work for me.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Why should anyone be happy
by Dasher42 on Fri 26th Oct 2007 20:43 in reply to "Why should anyone be happy"
Dasher42 Member since:
2007-04-05

I don't mind proprietary software as long as it works well and interoperates well with open solutions. Most importantly, I want a smooth, uninterrupted workflow. OSX gives me the best desktop for now, and I choose open source applications to run on it. MacPorts, anyone?

Reply Parent Score: 2