Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 29th Oct 2007 20:27 UTC
Mac OS X "While the Apple hype machine and its fanatical followers would have you believe that Mac OS X 10.5 'Leopard' is a major upgrade to the company's venerable operating system, nothing could be further from the truth. Instead, Leopard is yet another evolutionary upgrade in a long line of evolutionary OS X upgrades, all of which date back to the original OS X release in 2001. But let me get one huge misunderstanding out of the way immediately: That's not a dig at Leopard at all. Indeed, if anything, Apple is in an enviable position: OS X is so solid, so secure, and so functionally excellent that it must be getting difficult figuring out how to massage another USD 129 out even the most ardent fans. Folks, Leopard is good stuff. But then that's been true of Mac OS X for quite a while now." Additionally, Apple acknowledges installation problems caused by Unsanity's APE, while others are complaining about problems with Java, or visual oddities. Additionally, there are hacks that restore the black dock triangles, opacify the menubar, and to enable Time Machine on Airport disks. Update: It appears the Leopard firewall has a dent in its armour.
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RE[2]: Goord lord
by kaiwai on Tue 30th Oct 2007 03:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Goord lord"
Member since:

well, for java, lets hope so. but Java 6 already had 3 updates in other three major platforms, so it would be no so fair to call it "buggy and problematic". what apple really did wrong was not to give any explanations about it. there is a big java developer crowd using macs and this attitude is disappointing them badly.

Dear god, ok, I'll go and get the source code, find some operating system and just compile - I can't? it might need to be ported! but according to ahmetaa and siimo, not testing should be required, it all works!

Please, get a clue. Just because Java 6 is available for Linux and Windows, doesn't mean that its just an automatic compile away; get a clue on what Apple does, then come back spouting uninformed garbage.

Edited 2007-10-30 03:59

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Goord lord
by bryanv on Tue 30th Oct 2007 14:50 in reply to "RE[2]: Goord lord"
bryanv Member since:

+1 kaiwai!

Having worked to port Java 1.4.2 to BeOS, I know what Apple goes through to get it working.

The Sun code (last I looked) didn't have a PPC hotspot implementation. So Apple for all these years has been maintaining PPC hotspot in server and client versions, and more recently x86 hotspot in server and client versions. That's FOUR VM's to maintain! FOUR. The only other company that does that much work is Sun, and I guarantee they have more engineers dedicated to Java than Apple does.

Java 6 made a lot of changes to the hotspot VM, and backporting those changes to a PPC VM would certainly be difficult.

I'm going to guess that the changes to coreimage, the 2D rendering on Leopard, etc. are the core problems with the Java2D breakage in Java 1.5 on Leopard.

My gut feeling is that Apple was 'close' to getting JDK6 out the door with Leopard but that the Oct deadline to ship by the Christmas shopping season put too much of a squeeze on their efforts.

My guess is that when the JDK6 does ship, it will be fantastic. I'll probably have the entire Java2D implementation updated to work with the new rendering models on Leopard, it'll probably integrate better than the previous JDK's on the previous releases of OS X, and it'll probably be one of the best JDK's and JRE's out there once again.

This has all the classic marks of 'feature cut to fit timeframe, expect it in a point release'. Seriously.

Another tell-tale sign for me is that not too long ago, Apple was looking for people to work on AWT bindings. The old Apple JRE from OS 9 was Carbon. There's good reason to believe that they kept it as Carbon when they moved it to OS X. The future of Carbon is Cocoa... why not take the opportunity of redoing the rendering model for Java2D to also update your AWT stack? The two are very tightly married, and the engineer in me see that it would make total sense to do it all at once.

I just have a hunch that their ambitions for the update made them bite off more than they could chew.

Reply Parent Score: 4