Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 8th Nov 2007 17:33 UTC, submitted by WillM
In the News One year after sealing their surprise alliance, Novell and Microsoft have announced an expansion of their technical collaboration to 'link together the existing Windows and Linux frameworks'. The firms will extend their existing collaboration to focus on virtualisation, standards-based management, directory and identity federation and document format compatibility. As part of this process, Microsoft said that both companies are 'now working closely' at the Microsoft and Novell Interoperability Lab in Massachusetts.
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RE: Good for Novell!
by segedunum on Thu 8th Nov 2007 22:37 UTC in reply to "Good for Novell!"
segedunum
Member since:
2005-07-06

While many living in the anti-Microsoft camp will simply despise Novell more for this, fortunately I do not think Novell gives a damn...

Alas, Novell will give a damn when Microsoft, who are their biggest competitor, start replacing all the Suse coupons and servers (which have to be under Windows domain controllers under the deal incidentally) and finish off what is left of Novell's market share from the Netware legacy. Novell are having to get their biggest competitor to sell their own products for them! If you can't see how idiotic that is then I recommend a padded cell.

Anybody who thinks this is rabid 16 your old fanboy talk simply simply doesn't have the first clue about what's going on, and would be best served not commenting. Ask yourself: Microsoft are Novell's biggest competitor, and are being pretty successful at moving Netware customers to Windows. Why are Microsoft going to help Novell?

It's a simple question. Really, some of you idiots are exceptionally naive, but it seems Microsoft can count on such an attitude in most places.

Novell on the other hand does have a community of businesses to which they provides services to, most of which happen to also use Windows (ours included).

Alas, Windows is a competitor. Novell are going to have to do as much interoperability as they can, by themselves, until they convince you that Windows is a bad choice and what they have is better.

Real men and companies compete. Wimps stay up late all night, out of their depth, wondering what they're going to do, and then they whine to the bully to stop and give them their dinner money.

Mixed environments such as ours, and many of our clients, do see this as a very positive way forward.

Does Microsoft's software really help you in a mixed environment? Now that Microsoft has caught the interoperability bug and are supposedly helping Novell with federated directory services, are they contributing to Samba 4 for AD interoperability?

What specific improvements do you expect to see exactly, or is this just all hot air and hearsay?

I am sure if Novell starts to gain market share with Suse Enterprise, many of Red Hats shareholders are going to be none to pleased with their stance.

The bottom line here is that Novell still has a larger revenue than Red Hat, mostly thanks to Netware, whose customers Microsoft now want to get over to the Windows world at a faster rate as a result of this deal (as well as some patent FUD). Novell have declining revenue from Netware and their Linux business isn't growing anywhere near enough to compensate, let alone compete with Red Hat. Red Hat's revenue is going up.

The trend is down, and this deal was a last, desperate throw of the dice - that Microsoft gave to them, and have ones on all sides.

Reply Parent Score: 9

RE[2]: Good for Novell!
by elsewhere on Fri 9th Nov 2007 05:40 in reply to "RE: Good for Novell!"
elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

Anybody who thinks this is rabid 16 your old fanboy talk simply simply doesn't have the first clue about what's going on, and would be best served not commenting.


I agree with your post, but you're missing the argument.

You're one of the few people on this board that are actually familiar with Novell beyond their blogosphere linux involvement, most of the complaining comes from people who simply see MS as the Big Evil using Novell as an instrument in their destruction of linux through patent claims.

I think the MS/Novell deal was a mistake for many of the reasons you point out, because they're in the context of a business sense. I remember the glory days when I was selling Netware licenses like they were going out of style, and the Novell reps scoffed at the idea that anyone would every want to put NT in their server rooms. Novell took a deserved beating, as did a veritable army of many other market-leading vendors, for dismissing Microsoft's capability. To Novell's credit, they're one of the few that survived.

But the argument that most frequently comes up is that Novell is somehow undermining linux with the MS agreement because of the patent issue. That's simply balls off. That's where the 16 yo fanboy comment comes from, and it's mostly on the mark, because few of the posters can actually qualify their arguments, they're simply regurgitating cliches, hyperbole and groklaw dogma.

The Novell deal is questionable for business reasons, but is irrelevant for the philosophical or imaginary patent reasons everybody keeps dredging up.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[3]: Good for Novell!
by segedunum on Fri 9th Nov 2007 10:57 in reply to "RE[2]: Good for Novell!"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

But the argument that most frequently comes up is that Novell is somehow undermining linux with the MS agreement because of the patent issue. That's simply balls off.

Not it isn't. You see, Novell professes to be an open source, Linux based company. The destinies of Linux, Novell and the open source software that Novell relies on to make their products and inextricably linked. Whatever harm is done to Linux and open source software ultimately comes back to bite Novell, and if Novell harms them then it comes around to bite everyone else. Everyone depends on everyone else in a community like that.

What Novell did, because they were so desperate, was to cave in to Microsoft's specific demands to have some kind of agreement about patents - whatever that happened to be. The way this was eventually spun was that Novell's customers had some kind of protection from Microsoft, whereas no other Linux distributor's customers had. Thus Novell were happy to try and claim this as competitive advantage.

What then happened was that Microsoft spun this themselves to the corporate audience they wanted to get their message to, to say that Linux and open source software infringed on Microsoft's patents and IP and that you weren't safe unless you got your Linux distro from a company that had signed a similar agreement. This then went beyond Novell and harmed the impression of Linux and open source software further afield.

Novell tried to backtrack on all of this, but the damage had been done and Microsoft got what they wanted. They tried to helpfully tell us that Linux and open source software infringed on no Microsoft patent they could see, but signing a deal to protect their customers and then saying this is a logical fallacy that will not square - and people can see it.

Novell as an open source and Linux company have harmed the wider perception of Linux and open source software. It's that simple. The amusing thing is that many people point out that Novell is a business and they have done this for their own benefit. However, since the destiny of Novell with open source software is linked, and they have agreed to some other silly things in this deal, they've not only harmed the wider perception of Linux and open source software, they've harmed themselves and put the noose around their own neck.

Whatever way anyone tries to cut this, Novell is an exceptionally stupid, naive, incompetent and cowardly company. I'm quite impressed that Redmond seems to have kept a lid on any in-jokes regarding this whole thing.

Reply Parent Score: 5