Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 19th Nov 2007 21:16 UTC, submitted by Wyatt Lyon Preul
.NET (dotGNU too) Scott Guthrie has announced that Visual Studio 2008 and .NET 3.5 are now available for download and provides a tour of some of the new features. "Visual Studio 2008 and .NET 3.5 contain a ton of new functionality and improvements. Below are links to blog posts I've done myself as well as links to videos you can watch to learn more about it."
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Lack of clue
by chrisjsmith on Tue 20th Nov 2007 10:34 UTC
chrisjsmith
Member since:
2007-10-25

I get the feeling that most people on here are posting false anecdotes and piles of poop rather than factual information.

If you cannot keep up with the developments, perhaps you are in the wrong industry? The developments are incremental over the period of 3 years since Visual Studio 2005. Each feature, and there are ONLY about 4-5 significant language/process changes, should take no more than half an hour to understand and a week or two to be productive in. For the grain in productivity and the general satisfaction coming from these features, perhaps you should be more grateful and spend more time doing some structured learning.

As for the open-source zealots who plug "I can do anything in C and Vim", yes you can but it has a higher miss-rate when it comes to reliability, maintainability, security and general quality control. The productivity is poor as well. I'd rather not waste my life re-inventing the wheel every 8 seconds. Try writing this in C with Vim in 45 seconds (even using any C library:

class A {
public static void Main() {
Dictionary<string, string> x = new Dictionary<string, string>();
x.Add("Key", "value");
Console.WriteLine(x["Key"]);
}
}

Reply Score: 0

RE: Lack of clue
by segedunum on Tue 20th Nov 2007 10:48 in reply to "Lack of clue"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

If you cannot keep up with the developments, perhaps you are in the wrong industry?

I can tell you don't develop software for customers. Installation and implementation issues take up the vast majority of your time, not development.

The developments are incremental over the period of 3 years since Visual Studio 2005. Each feature, and there are ONLY about 4-5 significant language/process changes

People are installing their applications on Windows target machines, not Visual Studio or .Net.

The productivity is poor as well. I'd rather not waste my life re-inventing the wheel every 8 seconds.

One word: ActiveRecord.

Try writing this in C with Vim in 45 seconds (even using any C library

What are you talking about C for? Have a go at writing that in Python, Ruby or even Java.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Lack of clue
by chrisjsmith on Tue 20th Nov 2007 16:44 in reply to "RE: Lack of clue"
chrisjsmith Member since:
2007-10-25

In reply to various comments:

a) I do develop customer-centric software! Lots of it.

b) ActiveRecord is POOR compared to LINQ. Its performance is horrible, it's impossible to test properly as the reference for the object tier is stored in the data tier and you are working blind at the object tier with the assumption that certain accessors are present. With LINQ, you are assured something is going to work AT COMPILE TIME.

c) Java doesnt' have an equivalent to LINQ. Python has SQLobject which doesn't even remotely compare (different model), Ruby has ActiveRecord which is totally non performant.

d) You don't need Visual studio to compile C# code - what total rubbish. csc.exe is present on ALL .Net installations (runtime!) in C:WindowsMicrosoft.NetFrameworkvWHATEVERcsc.exe and acts the same as GCC does on linux with respect to compilation. You can use cmd's type command and then use csc to compile. Idiots.

Will people stop arguing without facts?

Further rant: I have used Python (Django) and Ruby on Rails for some small projects but they just don't cut it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Lack of clue
by FunkyELF on Tue 20th Nov 2007 15:54 in reply to "Lack of clue"
FunkyELF Member since:
2006-07-26

Try writing this in C with Vim in 45 seconds (even using any C library:

class A {
public static void Main() {
Dictionary<string, string> x = new Dictionary<string, string>();
x.Add("Key", "value");
Console.WriteLine(x["Key"]);
}
}


How about Java using no editor at all?
Did that 45 seconds include starting up Visual studio and creating a new project?

$ cat > Test.java <<EOF && javac Test.java && java Test
> import java.util.*;
> public class Test{
> public static void main(final String args[]){
> Map<String,String> x = new HashMap<String,String>();
> x.put("Key","Value");
> System.out.println(x.get("Key"));
> }
> }
> EOF
Value
$ echo Wow!
Wow!
$

Edited 2007-11-20 15:54

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Lack of clue
by bm3719 on Tue 20th Nov 2007 20:15 in reply to "Lack of clue"
bm3719 Member since:
2006-05-30

Try writing this in C with Vim in 45 seconds (even using any C library:

class A {
public static void Main() {
Dictionary<string, string> x = new Dictionary<string, string>();
x.Add("Key", "value");
Console.WriteLine(x["Key"]);
}
}


printf("value");

:)

Reply Parent Score: 2