Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 18th Nov 2007 15:46 UTC
Graphics, User Interfaces This is the sixth article in a series on common usability and graphical user interface related terms [part I | part II | part III | part IV | part V]. On the internet, and especially in forum discussions like we all have here on OSNews, it is almost certain that in any given discussion, someone will most likely bring up usability and GUI related terms - things like spatial memory, widgets, consistency, Fitts' Law, and more. The aim of this series is to explain these terms, learn something about their origins, and finally rate their importance in the field of usability and (graphical) user interface design. In part VI, we focus on the dock.
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RE[5]: @google_ninja
by Pixie on Thu 22nd Nov 2007 20:15 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: @google_ninja "
Pixie
Member since:
2005-09-30

"Sure you aren't. Nobody is a Mac fanboy. "
I have a bachelor in webdesign it's quite different. I had to learn about usability issues... as for using a Mac, only have one since January, don't have the time needed for being a fanboy.

"Perhaps you would care to be specific on exactly how the window configurations of Windows Photoshop and the Gimp emulate the Mac."
Who cares about Gimp, photoshop has a menu in top of the window of which when magnified has its menu on top, as mac does.

"In OSX, you are correct -- almost everything has already been decided for you and you cannot change it. However, with *nix and Windows, one has many more choices. "
OSX is *unix if you do not know. As for having more choices, do you know... consistency is a good thing, thinks shouldn't run amok, you don't have to learn different tools for the same job, you can have choice as long as it keeps being the same. If you open a file requester you should be able to choose what kind of file requester is, but it should be transversal along the system, that's what explorer and finder are...

"By the way, GUI menus appeared in the Xerox Alto over a decade before the Amiga. I am not going to bother linking another screenshot -- look at the ones posted earlier in this thread."
Joe User wise? Who cares if some special cult had used/developed it before, they came up with a concept, Amiga (and Apple) actually had apps that used that concept, there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path...

"Perhaps you could reference these tests. Did they test varying distances between the starting position and the targets on the screen edge? "
You know that mouse pointer has acceleration or can be made to... as for the tests, please find them yourself, they will enlighten you.

"I will bet you US$1000.00 that nine out of ten random people cannot, in a single attempt, click on a white, 1-pixel target centered on the top edge of a black, 1024x768 screen, given a standard pointer positioned on the bottom edge of the screen and two seconds (a usability eternity) to accomplish the task. "
I don't giva a damn with fairy 'use cases' tales, I care with real world real use cases, if you came up with one which belongs to it be my guest otherwise you're talking to the wrong guy and failing to make a point altogether...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: @google_ninja
by tupp on Fri 23rd Nov 2007 05:33 in reply to "RE[5]: @google_ninja "
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

as for using a Mac, only have one since January, don't have the time needed for being a fanboy.

Because of the permeating Apple/Jobs hype and the rabid Mac user-base, many are Mac fanboys before their first purchase of an Apple product.

Even if most Mac fanboys became so after their first Mac purchase, it doesn't take long before they become frothing-at-the-mouth, Apple-slogan-spewing zombies.

Here is a quote made by a Mac user immediately following a keynote speech by Steve Jobs: "I've had a Macintosh now for a total of 35 days, and I'm really excited to be part of the Mac community." Keep in mind that this gushing mac user merely bought a computer one month prior.

By the way, this quote can be found in this ABC News article: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Story?id=2782509&page=2


Who cares about Gimp

Uh, perhaps the 1000s of Gimp users and the hundreds of post-production people in the movie industry who use Cinepaint (a fork of the Gimp) and not Photoshop.


photoshop has a menu in top of the window of which when magnified has its menu on top, as mac does.

Of course, when Photoshop is not maximized the menu is not at the top of the screen -- which is not as Mac does and which is often the case when one has a large monitor.


OSX is *unix if you do not know.

SHAZAM!


As for having more choices, do you know... consistency is a good thing, thinks shouldn't run amok, you don't have to learn different tools for the same job, you can have choice as long as it keeps being the same. If you open a file requester you should be able to choose what kind of file requester is, but it should be transversal along the system, that's what explorer and finder are...

Yes. Consistency is important but not always imperative, and, sometimes, it is advantageous to have certain inconsistencies. Consistency comes under the usability heading of "conditioning" which, as I have said, has been thoroughly covered in this thread.

However, before a user gets conditioned to his gui, the user can make a lot of choices about the configuration of the GUI, without detriment. Also, after the conditioning process, users can often make choices about their gui which are improvements.

The Mac gui does not allow a lot of choice, while most other guis do.


"By the way, GUI menus appeared in the Xerox Alto over a decade before the Amiga. I am not going to bother linking another screenshot -- look at the ones posted earlier in this thread."
Joe User wise? Who cares if some special cult had used/developed it before...


Okay. So, you are saying that Xerox is a special, multi-national-corporation-who-revolutionized-the-gui cult.

In regards to "Joe User," he doesn't care about the Amiga nor the Mac -- he is using Windows (and, soon, probably, Linux: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8642294935.html).


they came up with a concept [gui menus], Amiga (and Apple) actually had apps that used that concept

The insidious Xerox cult must have fabricated these screenshots of pre-Mac/pre-Amiga applications showing hierarchical, gui menus, just to fool Joe User:
http://toastytech.com/guis/altorainbow.jpg
http://www.digibarn.com/friends/curbow/star/2/p4-lg.jpg


there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path...

And I am beginning to realize that point more and more, with each one of your posts.


I have a bachelor in webdesign

Congratulations on that.


I had to learn about usability issues...

Judging from your ignorance of Xerox, the program didn't exactly stress gui usability history. I wonder if there were any other gaps in the curriculum.


"Perhaps you could reference these tests. Did they test varying distances between the starting position and the targets on the screen edge? "
You know that mouse pointer has acceleration or can be made to... as for the tests, please find them yourself, they will enlighten you.


Who said anything about mouse acceleration?

By the way, I read the studies that you have chosen not to reference, and they found that distance affects time/accuracy in reaching pointer targets positioned on the top of the screen, according to Fitts law.


I don't giva a damn with fairy 'use cases' tales, I care with real world real use cases, if you came up with one which belongs to it be my guest otherwise you're talking to the wrong guy and failing to make a point altogether...

I see. You only give credence to real world cases, such as your usability "tests."

I think that most will agree that things get sobering and "real world" almost instantly when one is wagering a serious chunk of money. If you don't believe me, go into Las Vegas casino and try to snatch back a lost US$1000 table bet with your argument that the bet was a "fairy 'use case'" -- you will very quickly find yourself in a real world jail.

So, how about it? As I said earlier in my bet, just because a target is on the screen edge, it doesn't mean that it can be hit within two seconds. If you think that I am wrong, then you could win an easy US$1000, otherwise, you are admitting that I am right and that you are wrong.

Edited 2007-11-23 05:42

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: @google_ninja
by Pixie on Fri 23rd Nov 2007 09:35 in reply to "RE[6]: @google_ninja "
Pixie Member since:
2005-09-30

"Judging from your ignorance of Xerox, the program didn't exactly stress gui usability history. I wonder if there were any other gaps in the curriculum. "
My Ignorance? Since when Xerox had went mainstream? I was talking about implementations that real people used along with tons of apps And I DO know Xerox, and I do know that either Mac and Amiga GUIs were way ahead functionality wise then of Xerox that were mainly Primitives of GUI, concepts...

"I see. You only give credence to real world cases, such as your usability "tests." "
Pay the money and I might trouble seeking them again, otherwise why bother? It's you loosing anyway...

(as it was a 2s search I will give you it freely: http://www.asktog.com/columns/022DesignedToGiveFitts.html )

"I think that most will agree that things get sobering and "real world" almost instantly when one is wagering a serious chunk of money."
It would win against a single pixel randomly placed on the center of the screen.

"If you don't believe me, go into Las Vegas casino and try to snatch back a lost US$1000 table bet with your argument that the bet was a "fairy 'use case'" -- you will very quickly find yourself in a real world jail. "
Who said i was going on silly bets?

"So, how about it? As I said earlier in my bet, just because a target is on the screen edge, it doesn't mean that it can be hit within two seconds. "
Your bet is much worth as most of what you say. What relevance has one pixel whatsoever on the screen when there's NO implementation relying on it? It has no relevance whatsoever, by being right what exactly is your point? Is it actually easier to pick a random placed dot in the middle of the screen then a random dot placed on the edge of the screen? Now that would be something willing to bet, but I'm not into bets, I prefer to let you keep with you money.

Edited 2007-11-23 09:44

Reply Parent Score: 1