Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 22nd Nov 2007 16:59 UTC, submitted by Oliver
BSD and Darwin derivatives "DesktopBSD 1.6RC3 for AMD64 is now available for download via BitTorrent and from our mirror sites. It includes several improvements made since the release of 1.6RC3 for i386, including: better performance by disabling SMP on single core/processor computers, fixed installation on disks with special partition names, inclusion of the FreeBSD ports collection on the DVD, and more."
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RE[2]: Good news
by Doc Pain on Fri 23rd Nov 2007 07:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Good news"
Doc Pain
Member since:
2006-10-08

"Currently DesktopBSD is generally considered as a less known (or even worse) competitor to PC-BSD, DesktopBSD is only considered as a 'same as PC-BSD' but packages are installed in diffrent way."

Sadly, this is what I'd say when I get asket about what's the difference between DesktopBSD and PC-BSD. But in other words, DesktopBSD is more "hand in hand with" the underlying FreeBSD OS because it does not introduce a new kind of package installers, along with new directories rooted in / that contain the PBI content.

"The good road forDesktopBSD will be abandon KDE and offer Gnome AND Xfce to choose after isntallation (focus on GTK2 desktop), this along with their tools would be a TRUE alternative to PC-BSD and people would have an alternative to PC-BSD which is bundled with KDE."

I would really honour this change. I'm tired of KDE already. Please don't get me wrong: KDE is a fine thing for newbies and average home users, but it is definitely not designed for me. After installing PC-BSD, my first move would be to deinstall nearly everything because I do not use any KDE application. Gnome, on the other hand, provides a desktop system that appeals a bit more to me, but still, I like XFCE and WindowMaker a lot. For those who prefer a manually tailored BSD system, "plain" FreeBSD would be the better choice, I think; this provides a way to have only those software installed that you really really want, and not what others think you will need. Integration of the underlying OS into the setup mechanisms of Gnome would be a rewarding task, so you don't need to rely on KDE setup tools only if you feel you need GUI tools to administer your system.

And please, re-read the paragraph above: I don't want to start a flame war KDE vs. Gnome or say "KDE is for dummies". It's just not for me, honestly. :-)

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Good news
by Daniel Seuffert on Fri 23rd Nov 2007 13:01 in reply to "RE[2]: Good news"
Daniel Seuffert Member since:
2005-08-02

You are living proof you are not the targeted audience for DesktopBSD and PC-BSD and you explained everybody in detail why.

Use FreeBSD instead, configure your machine the way you like and help FreeBSD.

The only thing you, vermaden and all those other dudes is to suggest starting a distri hell in FreeBSD too like Linux. And after all you have 100 different FreeBSD-distris with 100 window managers. If you don't believe try to name all Buntus within a minute.

The only thing you will realize someday is

a) wasted time and resources that would be better spent on easing the installation, upgrading, configuring etc. of any of the 100 given windows managers in 1 distri or what you like to name it.

b) your time would be better spent helping FreeBSD to improve the Ports system rather than bundling wm after wm with the same FreeBSD kernel etc. It doesn't matter if you like Ports, packages, pbi or anything else: You totally rely on the hard work of the FreeBSD Ports committers and maintainers and they themselves rely on the work of all those people writing and maintaining that applications.

For each FreeBSD distri you need at least one person to do it. What would be better: 300 Ports committers instead of 200 or 200 Ports committers and 100 persons doing their distri thing? You know the answer.

If for example pbi is capable of installing a given wm with a click the only thing you gain with a specialized distri for wm X is one click. And if you don't like pbi you can use the package manager in DesktopBSD. Uh, that's only one click too... And if you don't like both you can type pkg_add -r $wm. That was easy? Uh, its BSD.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: Good news
by siride on Fri 23rd Nov 2007 15:26 in reply to "RE[3]: Good news"
siride Member since:
2006-01-02

What is a 'distri'?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Good news
by Doc Pain on Sat 24th Nov 2007 08:20 in reply to "RE[3]: Good news"
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

You didn't understand my posting, right? Well, maybe it's because english is not my native language, so it seems I need to comment this.

"The only thing you, vermaden and all those other dudes is to suggest starting a distri hell in FreeBSD too like Linux. And after all you have 100 different FreeBSD-distris with 100 window managers. If you don't believe try to name all Buntus within a minute."

Regarding terminology, FreeBSD does not come in distributions, it comes in flavours. I'm not sure where I read this. In most cases, the FreeBSD flavours are compatible, at least at OS level, because they are all built upon the same FreeBSD OS and offer its basic functionalities, for example, the package management and the ports collection. This is what makes FreeBSD different from Linux where some distributions are incompatible to others when it comes to parts like package management or basic tools included. To make a FreeBSD system incompatible with another one it needs more changes than what DesktopBSD and PC-BSD do.

I for myself didn't try to start a "distri war" in FreeBSD world, because this is completely useless and, if I may say this, impossible. Maybe you can say you cannot use PBI with plain FreeBSD, but that's okay because it's not intended to. PBI is a speciality of PC-BSD, and it cannot be integrated into a plain FreeBSD system because it introduces certain incompatibilities.

"The only thing you will realize someday is

a) wasted time and resources that would be better spent on easing the installation, upgrading, configuring etc. of any of the 100 given windows managers in 1 distri or what you like to name it."


As I explained before, there are no window managers included with FreeBSD's basic "distribution". PC-BSD and DesktopBSD come with KDE, so they are maintaining it (and, as it seems, only KDE) to fit the needs of the targeted audience.

Easing installation? What's so compilcated in, let's say, "pkg_add -r xfce" that you need to make it more easy? Things like installing or upgrading are the things the ports maintainers care about, so things like "portupgrade xfce" will work. Configuration is up to the creators of the window managers itself, or developers who provide a specific setup tool for a window manager that does not include one.

"b) your time would be better spent helping FreeBSD to improve the Ports system rather than bundling wm after wm with the same FreeBSD kernel etc."

As you will agree, this is what beginners and average users are searching for: A fully preconfigured and integrated compilation of "everyday use software", allthough I admit that needs are very different, so you cannot expect - as I mentioned before - that KDE will be the best solution for everyone. But you can see from the popularity of the KDE based Linux distributions: KDE is not that bad as you may have read from my post (allthough I did not intend to say anything like that). Don't confuse KDE with a simple window manager: Like Gnome (or XFCE 4), it is a complete desktop environment.

"It doesn't matter if you like Ports, packages, pbi or anything else: You totally rely on the hard work of the FreeBSD Ports committers and maintainers and they themselves rely on the work of all those people writing and maintaining that applications."

This is correct.

"For each FreeBSD distri you need at least one person to do it."

No. Because the base system is what the ports rely on, and the base system is not changed by either PC-BSD or DesktopBSD, so ports will work everywhere. Only exception: The PBI system from PC-BSD is independant from the ports / packages system.

"If for example pbi is capable of installing a given wm with a click the only thing you gain with a specialized distri for wm X is one click. And if you don't like pbi you can use the package manager in DesktopBSD. Uh, that's only one click too... And if you don't like both you can type pkg_add -r $wm. That was easy? Uh, its BSD."

FreeBSD has always been famous for its user-friendlyness. :-)

Reply Parent Score: 2