Linked by Eugenia Loli on Thu 8th Sep 2005 16:53 UTC
Gnome The Gnome Project released version 2.12 yesterday. We had a quick look at it by using the latest Gnome Live CD (1.12-pre) and Foresight 0.9.0 (2.12 final) and here are our thoughts over 2.12 and Gnome's status in general.
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RE[2]: Menu editor...
by Daniel Borgmann on Thu 8th Sep 2005 18:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Menu editor..."
Daniel Borgmann
Member since:
2005-07-08

...an ego problem. Seriously.

Nonsense. It has been the plan from the beginning to only offer the required amount of functionality. Adding items is not required, because you should never need it if applications are not broken. Even then you can easily add launchers to your panel, put them in a drawer if you are short on space. The fact that they don't appear in the menu is mostly a cosmetic issue.

If you need to fix broken applications and if you really want to make them appear in your menu, then it's not difficult at all to install a different menu editor.

You may very well disagree with this thinking and you may be right as much as you may be wrong, but talking about "ego problems" is really cheap and inappropriate. Seriously.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Menu editor...
by Eugenia on Thu 8th Sep 2005 18:28 in reply to "RE[2]: Menu editor..."
Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

>Adding items is not required

And WHO made the STUDY to really tell if it's required or not??? Can you please direct me to the outcome of the user study made by the Gnome Project? Obviously me, Thom and others need the feature. I agree that for Gnome and KDE applications it should be considered "a bug" if an app comes without a working menu item, but there are other GTK, plain Qt, older X11 apps that don't care about the freedesktop.org standard, and as a user, I MIGHT NEED this application to my everyday work. Therefore, I would want to add it to my gnome menu. Therefore, the current gnome menu editor is too little, and if I may say so, too late.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: Menu editor...
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 8th Sep 2005 18:43 in reply to "RE[3]: Menu editor..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Exactly, Eugenia, I was about to post pretty much the same comment.

I've just been browsing through mailing-list archives and gnome-bugzilla, and I can tell from all the posts that the amount of people wanting *normal* menu-editing, like any other DE or OS has, outnumber the people against it. Actually, I couldn't find *anyone* completely against users adding new menu items; most were indifferent to it (probably because only people like us join in ml/bugzila discussions, people that can do stuff like this manually).

Now, you are right that applications should conform to Freedesktop standards, and properly install a decent menu entry; however, not all apps will do that. Compare it to Windows; in essence, every app there should confirm to the admin/user divide in Windows; yet barely any app does that. So, there must be solution to this problem *inside* the DE that people use.

Other than that; how do you know 'normal' users do not need menu editing in GNOME, when it wasn't available for quite some time now? If I got a eurocent for everytime I heard someone complain about the lack of menu-editing in GNOME...

I called this an ego problem because as far as I can tell, the descision to make menu-editing *not* a priority is a developer-inspired descision; not a descision based on user feedback.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: Menu editor...
by on Thu 8th Sep 2005 19:59 in reply to "RE[3]: Menu editor..."
Member since:

Eugenia... calm down ;) lol
Love & Peace...

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[4]: Menu editor...
by on Fri 9th Sep 2005 00:20 in reply to "RE[3]: Menu editor..."
Member since:

>>Adding items is not required

>And WHO made the STUDY to really tell if it's required or not???

Is a study really necessary? You seem to ignore certain points when you feel your position is being countered.
One point you completely blew by was, as stated in the post to which you wrote this reply, if the app isn't broken, the user wouldn't need to add menu items. In other words, if the app being installed includes a properly formated "app.desktop" file, as per FreeDesktop standards, the app would appear in the correct place in the menu. The user could then use GNOME's included menu editor to remove it if he/she so desired.
If, on the other hand, the app is broken(read:no "app.desktop" file), there are other ways to handle it aside from menu editing at the user level. Such as adding a launcher on the panel or desktop or actually writing the app.desktop file and dropping it in to the correct directory(generally /usr/share/applications).
IMO, handling menu editing at the user level is wrong. It should be handled at the system level with an option for the user remove items from their menus if they see fit. As it stands now, that's what we have. Provided, of course, that the app developers follow the standards laid out by FreeDesktop.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Menu editor...
by Wrawrat on Thu 8th Sep 2005 20:26 in reply to "RE[2]: Menu editor..."
Wrawrat Member since:
2005-06-30

Nonsense. It has been the plan from the beginning to only offer the required amount of functionality. Adding items is not required, because you should never need it if applications are not broken.

Then what is the point of having such menu editor? I understand that the average user merely need to hide and move menu entries, but you should also think about the slightly above average user that might need these functionalities. At worst, he could enable an obscure entry in GConf.

Getting another menu editor is barely a solution. Having two programs that pratically do the same thing is bloat.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Menu editor...
by on Sun 11th Sep 2005 19:29 in reply to "RE[2]: Menu editor..."
Member since:

If you need to fix broken applications and if you really want to make them appear in your menu...

Though I am a GNOME Zealot, I agree this sort of functionality would be appreciated...

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[5]: Menu editor...
by on Sun 11th Sep 2005 19:37 in reply to "RE[4]: Menu editor..."
Member since:

Ok, changed my mind. Better to enforce standards..
:P

Reply Parent Score: 0