Linked by David Adams on Tue 4th Dec 2007 19:39 UTC, submitted by michuk
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y "It may be a brave opinion but I predict that Ubuntu Linux and Windows Vista are going to be the two operating systems that will take over the largest chunk of the desktop OS market during the next couple of years. This comparison is based on my experience with both systems during the last couple of weeks on two different computers."
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RE: Give it some time
by ggeldenhuys on Tue 4th Dec 2007 20:21 UTC in reply to "Give it some time"
ggeldenhuys
Member since:
2006-11-13

People are not happy when they have a hardware they spent money for and it won't work anymore.


Surely you can't blame Ubuntu or Linux for that! If you want to blame somebody, blame the hardware vendors for not supporting the Linux OS! Every time you buy new hardware like a printer, you get Windows drivers and sometimes Mac OS X drivers, but *never* Linux drivers. The Open Source community has been brilliant in creating their own drivers.

I still think Linux supports more hardware out-of-the-box after a new install, than Windows (before you load Windows full of 3rdParty drivers).

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[2]: Give it some time
by miles on Tue 4th Dec 2007 21:37 in reply to "RE: Give it some time"
miles Member since:
2006-06-15

People are not happy when they have a hardware they spent money for and it won't work anymore.

Surely you can't blame Ubuntu or Linux for that!


Wacom tablets have a very good open source driver, and it worked in Feisty. The problem with Gutsy and Wacom tablets is definitely an Ubuntu choice.

There was also the whole usb_suspend fiaso in Feisty, which saw many scanners not working anymore, just because *ONE* dev (you know who you are) decided to enable a feature that was considered unstable by Linux kernel devs. When one person decides that it's ok to mess people's office for the sake of experimenting possible small battery improvements for laptops, then something is quite wrong (Mark was aware of the problem, but decided it was ok not to do anything about it, and it didn't show up in the release notes). Then Gutsy went back to a sane configuration.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Give it some time
by cyrilleberger on Tue 4th Dec 2007 23:33 in reply to "RE[2]: Give it some time"
cyrilleberger Member since:
2006-02-01

You got me on that one ;) My Wacom tablet wasn't working in Feisty, and is working on Gutsy. In fact, because of my tablet not working in Feisty, I try some other distribution, with no luck. Until I found out that there was a bug in Wacom support in kernel from 2.6.19 to 2.6.21.

And I am afraid those kind of regression are going to keep happening, and you can't blame distributions for those regressions. The linux kernel is moving too fast, I do think that they should go back to the previous development model, with a stable branch with driver improvement and bug fixes, and an unstable branch with all the subsystem changes.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Give it some time
by autumnlover on Tue 4th Dec 2007 22:46 in reply to "RE: Give it some time"
autumnlover Member since:
2007-04-12

Well I BLAME LINUX when it comes to hardware.

Why ? Here is latest example from experiences of mine:

Recently I managed to get Nokia 6610 GSM phone to be recognised by Ubuntu via some no-name IrDA interface and third party software.

Transfering files from and to phone works ok. But when I tried to use it as an "emergency Internet connection" it failed to connect via GPRS, despite of other people used the same scripts successfully and with the same GSM network as I tried.

By the way - as far as I remember way of connecting to Internet using Windows 3.1 and dial-up modem (software was called "trumpet winsock" or something) it was much easier than under Ubuntu and GPRS nowadays.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[3]: Give it some time
by Morgan on Wed 5th Dec 2007 11:27 in reply to "RE[2]: Give it some time"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

The problem with support for any hardware at all on Linux and other non-monopoly operating systems can usually be attributed to one or both of the following:

1. Lack of the hardware manufacturer's desire to write drivers for and/or support those OSes and

2. Lack of any open source developers interested enough in the particular hardware to write an OSS driver worth installing.

When both issues are present at once, usually with obscure but neccessary hardware, you end up with next to no support at all. Attitudes need to change on both sides of the fence before we get really good drivers, whether binary and manufacturer-supported or OSS and community-supported. Of course, what we really want is for the manufacturers to not only provide native OSS drivers but also to support said drivers. That very rarely happens but when it does (example: HP printers) it's a wonderful thing.

I long for the day when a big-name manufacturer will step up there and provide fully open-source friendly laptops and desktops that are 100% supported by Linux. Dell has come close with its Ubuntu offerings, but they are nothing more than their "Designed for Windows Vista" systems that are the most compatible with Linux. When it comes down to it, the various components that make up the PCs as a whole, each from a different manufacturer (mainboard, wifi card, video adapter, etc.), cause a significant roadblock to the above stated goal of 100% OSS compatibility. Even Apple computers have parts made by several different manufacturers, and are simply assembled under the Apple name and supported by Apple at the end of the production timeline.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Give it some time
by wirespot on Wed 5th Dec 2007 22:55 in reply to "RE[2]: Give it some time"
wirespot Member since:
2006-06-21

Transfering files from and to phone works ok. But when I tried to use it as an "emergency Internet connection" it failed to connect via GPRS, despite of other people used the same scripts successfully and with the same GSM network as I tried.


And Linux is at fault here because... Oh wait, it's not. Nokia refuses to document the inner workings of their phones and the protocols they use so Linux devs need to reverse engineer them. You should not be able to do anything with a Nokia phone on Linux. The fact that you're able to do something is remarcable.

By the way - as far as I remember way of connecting to Internet using Windows 3.1 and dial-up modem (software was called "trumpet winsock" or something) it was much easier than under Ubuntu and GPRS nowadays.


You either enjoy being tortured or your memory's not what it used to be in your old age. Because I remember that setting that up was a complete nightmare.

But tell you what, why don't you go back to using Windows 3.1 if you like it better than Ubuntu 7.10?

Edited 2007-12-05 22:58

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Give it some time
by kaiwai on Tue 4th Dec 2007 23:37 in reply to "RE: Give it some time"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Surely you can't blame Ubuntu or Linux for that! If you want to blame somebody, blame the hardware vendors for not supporting the Linux OS! Every time you buy new hardware like a printer, you get Windows drivers and sometimes Mac OS X drivers, but *never* Linux drivers. The Open Source community has been brilliant in creating their own drivers.


How is blaming the hardware company going to solve the problem? The customer doesn't care for your excuses, they just want the damn hardware supported, and they wanted it supported yesterday.

As a customer I don't care what excuses you give me for why hardware doesn't work - all I care about is whether it works or not. If it doesn't work, you won't get me as a customer.

Same goes for third party commercial applications, we as customers don't care for your excuses - unless the application we want are available on your platform, we don't care how good those replacements are, they aren't the ones we're used to it.

Get used to it, this is the marketplace - where customer is king, if you can't step up and meet the challenge, relegate yourself to a niche.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Give it some time
by cyclops on Tue 4th Dec 2007 23:44 in reply to "RE[2]: Give it some time"
cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

"How is blaming the hardware company going to solve the problem?"

Works for Vista users...although it does seem that a lot of these things are done already, and large companies like Intel/Ati etc etc are now advertising the work they have done in the kernel.

The Odd thing is he mentions printers, now why should an Apple supporter like you have heard of Cups ;)

"Same goes for third party commercial applications"
You mean like Firefoz, MySQL etc. Unless you didn't mean commercial...but another word maybe binary!?

"this is the marketplace - where customer is king" And yet Apple ;) and Vista both implement DRM which no customer wants. I wonder what you mean. Currently customers bend over for Vista...I was going to make a joke about Vista capable but for those users who where robbed its no joke.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[3]: Give it some time
by dylansmrjones on Thu 6th Dec 2007 03:21 in reply to "RE[2]: Give it some time"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

In that case the customer can damn straight pay for that support.

Using a gratis OS and demanding support like you had paid 500$, while you are sitting in the corner and whining about the evil non-paid developers that don't have time for you right now because they have a life outside your computer problems, just isn't fair.

Contribute or shut up.

Reply Parent Score: 2