Linked by David Adams on Tue 4th Dec 2007 19:39 UTC, submitted by michuk
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y "It may be a brave opinion but I predict that Ubuntu Linux and Windows Vista are going to be the two operating systems that will take over the largest chunk of the desktop OS market during the next couple of years. This comparison is based on my experience with both systems during the last couple of weeks on two different computers."
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RE[2]: Give it some time
by cyclops on Tue 4th Dec 2007 21:06 UTC in reply to "Give it some time"
Member since:

""Non-tech people should *never* have to see command-line. ""

Give examples

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Give it some time
by rockwell on Tue 4th Dec 2007 21:14 in reply to "RE[2]: Give it some time"
rockwell Member since:

//Give examples//

My neighbour, my dad, my sister, my wife, my co-workers, my .... lots of non-tech people.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Give it some time
by gilboa on Wed 5th Dec 2007 15:01 in reply to "RE[3]: Give it some time"
gilboa Member since:

.. Which most likely have a friend/relative/IT man that does the heavy lifting for them.

I've yet to see a single joe-Windows-user that managed to solve a major problem (broken installation/missing DLL/missing driver with no CD/etc) on its own.

- Gilboa

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Give it some time
by miles on Tue 4th Dec 2007 21:29 in reply to "RE[2]: Give it some time"
miles Member since:

"Non-tech people should *never* have to see command-line. "

Give examples

- using a Wacom tablet now requires to edit xorg.conf;
- screen rotation (for LCD with panning support) still needs you to edit xorg.conf, then you can install the gnome applet and it will work;
- as usual, if you want to input any language using scim (Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc...) but you're in an "occidental" locale, you also have to edit some files in addition to using System>Language settings. It's been like that since they broke it from Hoary to Breezy, and even though there's long and documented bug reports in Launchpad, nobody cared about it, except the users - I did set up a wiki to help people like me, but you still have to DIY (see

I love Ubuntu, but these problem have been going on for *years*, have been documented by users, bug report filled and solvable by main devs whenever they'd like to solve them.

However, Ubuntu release notes *never* pointed them, even when they were definite regression and would mess user's system (especially the whole scim fiasco). Reviews (even OSNews reviews) don't talk about them either, even though one is a showstopper (scim) for many people, and one a serious issue (wacom).

Edited 2007-12-04 21:39

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Give it some time
by Flatland_Spider on Tue 4th Dec 2007 22:34 in reply to "RE[3]: Give it some time"
Flatland_Spider Member since:

Canonical broke the vesa framebuffer in 7.10. Luckily I'm not the first one to have noticed this, so there was a thread about it in the forums. I'm starting to get the impression that Canonical doesn't build on releases. They seem to start out at square zero then see how far they can get on each release.

Reviews (even OSNews reviews) don't talk about them either, even though one is a showstopper (scim) for many people, and one a serious issue (wacom).

I don't think many reviewers live with the system for a long time. I suspect that most of them just install a OS under a VM, like VMware or VirtualBox, then write a review after playing with it for five minutes.

I think tech-journalism needs to have more long term reviews of OSes. Living with them day in and out on real hardware brings up a lot more faults. The high level fly-bys that pass as in dept reviews are just crap, and they do nothing for those of use who actually want to further our understanding of the OS.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: Give it some time
by daschmidty on Wed 5th Dec 2007 19:30 in reply to "RE[3]: Give it some time"
daschmidty Member since:

A few command line related observations:
1) as someone already mentioned the command line is the easiest howto you can give, because you don't have to explain anything to a user about complex work that they have to do. Compare a windows howto to an ubuntu howto. Simple networking howtos on windows are pages long, filled with dozens of screenshots of config windows that all looks almost identical. A Linux howto is generally one page culminating in a few CLI commands with instructions "Open a console, and copy-paste" Can it get much simpler or more straightforward then copy-paste?

2. While people have already brought up the cli vs regedit argument, I prefer to reference the mac os 10.5. In a post earlier this week in the "mac osx10.5 is the new vista, the "3d" dock issue was brought up by many people. This was quickly trivialized by mac users with a simple fix:

"To make dock 2D go to terminal and type the following:
defaults write no-glass -boolean YES
killall Dock

To make dock 3D
defaults write no-glass -boolean NO
killall Dock

Granted it should be a preference item, but why does everyone whine so much about this?"

So apparently, it's no big deal to use the CLI is MacOS when setting "Power User" settings, but in Linux using the CLI for anything is immediately viewed as absurd. It's somewhat hypocritical, in that the mac cli, which is just a UNIX cli anyways, is seen as a feature that makes OSX more useful, flexible, and powerful, but the linux cli gets such a bad rap.

Edited 2007-12-05 19:31

Reply Parent Score: 5