Linked by David Adams on Tue 4th Dec 2007 19:39 UTC, submitted by michuk
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y "It may be a brave opinion but I predict that Ubuntu Linux and Windows Vista are going to be the two operating systems that will take over the largest chunk of the desktop OS market during the next couple of years. This comparison is based on my experience with both systems during the last couple of weeks on two different computers."
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RE[5]: Silly
by google_ninja on Tue 4th Dec 2007 23:33 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Silly"
google_ninja
Member since:
2006-02-05

Not exactly chastising them is one.


OOXML isnt an abuse of their monopoly, it is a switch in formats (and a move in the right direction). Adding hidden APIs to the operating system for use only in microsoft products, or pressuring hardware venders to not offer alternative operating systems pre-installed are anti-competitive.

In that post, I was responding to somebody saying that OOXML is only used by Office, ODF is used by everything else. What I was saying is that point is moot, since office alone is MORE then everything else put together.

Oh year and then you take a pot shot at apple for there *loose* DRM as opposed to Vista's Orwellian DRM.


I wasn't taking potshots at apple for their DRM, I was pointing out that apple and vendor lock-in go together like peanut butter and chocolate. As someone who happily uses apples various product stacks, I can say that personally I don't care. If I remember right, I was arguing that "lock-in" only sucks when you have to use bits that you don't want to. By tightly coupling a stack, venders are free to provide integration that you wouldn't otherwise see.

You want to use OSX? You are buying a computer from apple, that will be bundled with software covering most creative areas. Their music software is tightly integrated into their music store, and to their portable mp3 player. Their OS is integrated with their .mac online service. Do mac users care? Nope. By contrast, but just bundling WMP with windows, the EU goes up in flames. Imagine if you had to have a Zune to access files you bought in their music store.

Hows that spyware working out for you.


Actually, really well. The more I use ASP.net, the more I love it. I am able to deliver more, faster then I would have ever been able to with J2EE. I still chuckle to myself whenever I do something in a line or two of code that would have taken hours to do in java.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Silly
by cyclops on Tue 4th Dec 2007 23:39 in reply to "RE[5]: Silly"
cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

""OOXML isnt an abuse of their monopoly,""

I couldn't stop laughing

""I was pointing out that apple and vendor lock-in go together like peanut butter and chocolate""

What has that to do with crippling the OS/Hardware/Soft-resests/Hardware costs for everyone/Long Driver Development time/Spyware....oh nothing

""Actually, really well""
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Forget-about-the-WGA-20-Windows-Vist...
Its a bit like cancer really, you don't spot it till its too late.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: Silly
by cyclops on Tue 4th Dec 2007 23:46 in reply to "RE[5]: Silly"
cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

""Imagine if you had to have a Zune to access files you bought in their music store. ""

Imagine open-formats, where hardware is not tied to the music it plays. ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Silly
by lemur2 on Wed 5th Dec 2007 00:04 in reply to "RE[5]: Silly"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

OOXML isnt an abuse of their monopoly, it is a switch in formats (and a move in the right direction). Adding hidden APIs to the operating system for use only in microsoft products, or pressuring hardware venders to not offer alternative operating systems pre-installed are anti-competitive.


Pffffft.

OOXML is riddled with references to Microsoft-proprietary APIs.

It is explicitly designed to be able to implemented fully only by Microsoft, and it is explicitly designed to be able to be run fully only on Windows platforms.

It is ABSOLUTELY an abuse of Microsoft's near-monopoly.

If Microsoft truly believed (as their OOXML spin claims) that "competing formats are good, let the market decide" then why do they not provide native file open & save support for the ODF format within MS Office, so that their locked-in market is able to decide?

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[7]: Silly
by kaiwai on Wed 5th Dec 2007 00:34 in reply to "RE[6]: Silly"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

If Microsoft truly believed (as their OOXML spin claims) that "competing formats are good, let the market decide" then why do they not provide native file open & save support for the ODF format within MS Office, so that their locked-in market is able to decide?


If it were such an issue, the said company would download and install the Sun ODF plugin to Microsoft Office, which would allow end users to save their files in ODF format.

But hey, you keep bashing Microsoft - you seem to have a lot of fun doing it.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: Silly
by lemur2 on Wed 5th Dec 2007 03:07 in reply to "RE[6]: Silly"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

If it were such an issue, the said company would download and install the Sun ODF plugin to Microsoft Office, which would allow end users to save their files in ODF format.


That Sun plugin isn't written by Microsoft (der), and Microsoft have managed to this very day to have still kept some parts of the document-in-memory format and their file formats (and the translation between the two) as trade secrets. So the Sun plugin does not convert documents to and from MS Office memory to the full fidelity of the ODF specification. There will be data loss.

Further, Microsoft "accidentally" introduced a "bug" in Office 2007 so that even if a suitable plugin is installed and the user attempts to open a file with an extension that indicates it is formatted for that plugin to handle, MS Office 2007 still uses its own internal format filters to try to read in that document. So it turns out that you cannot install any plugin for reading ODF via the "file open" command on MS Office 2007, no matter what you do or how good your plugin is.

Since MS Office 2007 cannot be made to read in an ODF document via the "file open" in MS Office 2007, it turns out that you cannot set MS Office 2007 as the default format for ODF files and have them open properly if you double-click on an ODF document in the file manager. In turn, this means that you cannot handle ODF files properly using sharepoint. Of course, the MS-sponsored CleverAge ODF converter is also useless in this respect.

Funny about that. Such a shame that you can't use those Sun plugins to their full potential.

<sarcasm>What a nasty and regrettable bug to have crept in to Office 2007 at the very last minute, hey! I'll bet Microsoft programmers are really really nose-to-the-grindstone fixing this one, hey! Round-the-clock efforts at Redmond here, no doubt. The pressure to ship it must be enormous.</sarcasm>

Edited 2007-12-05 03:09

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[7]: Silly
by google_ninja on Wed 5th Dec 2007 05:47 in reply to "RE[6]: Silly"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

I can't believe how easy it is to get modded up here. Think about what you wrote

OOXML is riddled with references to Microsoft-proprietary APIs.

It is explicitly designed to be able to implemented fully only by Microsoft, and it is explicitly designed to be able to be run fully only on Windows platforms.

It is ABSOLUTELY an abuse of Microsoft's near-monopoly.


How in the world is MS changing their own internal file format anti-competitive? How is opening the majority of it up to the public abuse? Sure, not all of it is open, but how is that worse then NONE of it being open?

Reply Parent Score: 2