Linked by Eugenia Loli on Fri 7th Dec 2007 06:25 UTC, submitted by poundsmack
Qt Jambi ships as a single Java library, or JAR (Java Archive) file, plus a handful of tools, including an interface layout and design tool, and an Eclipse plug-in. Trolltech uses its vaunted Qt C++ library as the GUI engine and puts Java wrappers around it. This approach uses the JNI (Java Native Interface) to call the necessary functions from Java. More here.
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RE[7]: Unconvinced
by mikeurbandz on Fri 7th Dec 2007 20:49 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Unconvinced"
mikeurbandz
Member since:
2007-10-29

> If you believe the above then you know nothing
> about ISVs, and I say that in the politest
> manner possible.

On the contrary, I know quite a bit about ISVs. And those source control tools are being sold to enterprises. NOT to small independent ISVs.

It's quite clear though you know nothing about Java and Swing. Since all three of the points you said it cannot do in your previous post, it can in fact do. And it can do it relatively easily. And on a cross platform basis.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: Unconvinced
by segedunum on Fri 7th Dec 2007 21:46 in reply to "RE[7]: Unconvinced"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

On the contrary, I know quite a bit about ISVs. And those source control tools are being sold to enterprises. NOT to small independent ISVs.

No you don't. ISVs of any size spend an awful lot on development tools and software. They still spend money on MSDN licenses if they do Windows development, and they even buy source code management software. Why do they do this? Because they develop software for a living. The market is heaving with the stuff, and companies of all types buy this.

If you're hinting at shareware developers then go away. Seriously. You don't know what you're talking about, and I say that as politely as I can. This refrain has been echoing around the open source world forever, and it's what is holding free desktops back from attracting ISVs in any way - because they don't understand customers. Read Eric Sink's book 'The Business of Software' if you're at all confused about any of this. It's worth the money in itself:

http://www.amazon.com/Eric-Business-Software-Experts-Voice/dp/15905...

Eric coined the term micro-ISV, so he knows what he's talking about. He runs SourceGear, which sells source code management tools to businesses of all sizes.

Read pages 172 - 173, about why someone would buy this stuff as opposed to using something like CVS for free (he was asked this question at Gnomedex). Many will, but for a lot, it just doesn't fit their needs. As Eric would say, if you're bewildered at this then 'you might want to find a scroll of identify and see what gloves you're wearing' ;-).

It's quite clear though you know nothing about Java and Swing. Since all three of the points you said it cannot do in your previous post, it can in fact do.

It amounts to just about reusing your GTK theme, fonts and icons, and approximating the feel. That's it. Sadly, that isn't good enough for developing desktop applications.

I laugh at people jumping up and down and telling me that I'm wrong because the Java 6 LAF has finally got around to inheriting the native theme, icons and fonts - after ten+ years! Believe me, that is the minimum that's required from something that purports to allow you to develop desktop applications.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[9]: Unconvinced
by leos on Fri 7th Dec 2007 21:57 in reply to "RE[8]: Unconvinced"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

I laugh at people jumping up and down and telling me that I'm wrong because the Java 6 LAF has finally got around to inheriting the native theme, icons and fonts - after ten+ years! Believe me, that is the minimum that's required from something that purports to allow you to develop desktop applications.


Dude. Chill the hell out. Qt rocks but there are other completely legitimate technologies you can use to develop software. Those others might not be as good for you (and they aren't for me either), but for some people (like mikeurbandz here) they seem to work just fine. Stick to rational arguments instead of these thinly veiled insults.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[9]: Unconvinced
by mikeurbandz on Fri 7th Dec 2007 22:01 in reply to "RE[8]: Unconvinced"
mikeurbandz Member since:
2007-10-29

> No you don't. ISVs of any size spend an awful lot
> on development tools and software.

Not nearly as much as they used to. Because today there are more options. Part of the reason so many small shops have been able to open up these days is cause of all the free software out there that helps them get started for very minimal cost.

> If you're hinting at shareware developers then go
> away. Seriously. You don't know what you're
> talking about.

I'm not hinting at shareware developers. That's not the kind of developer I am talking about.

And yes, I am familiar with SourceGear.

> It amounts to just about reusing your GTK
> theme, fonts and icons, and approximating the
> feel. That's it. Sadly, that isn't good enough
> for developing desktop applications.

And once again, you are plain wrong. It doesn't amount to that at all. Swing actually uses native peers for rendering these days. So it is doing more than just approximating the feel.

And you still haven't even looked at JDIC have you? Are you just ignoring JDIC now because you don't want to admit you were wrong? How many ways do I have to spell it out for you? JDIC does NOT simply use the GTK theme. It actually communicates to the underlying desktop environment. And this is why you can do things like write panel applets with it and such that you otherwise could not write using just plain Swing.

> That's it. Sadly, that isn't good enough
> for developing desktop applications.


Well, tell that to the vertical market application developers that have made Swing surpass even Microsoft's latest offerings as the most popular desktop application toolkit. Yes, it really is. You don't see that cause most of the desktop apps that are Java based are internal applications. But that's also what the majority of desktop applications are.

It's what powers many banking applications that tellers use. It's what powers the ticketing system at many airlines, etc.

> I laugh at people jumping up and down and telling
> me that I'm wrong.

Well, stop laughing then. Cause as I said, by shear number of desktop applications written, Swing is the most popular toolkit in the world. And the main reason I told you that you are wrong is cause you obviously don't understand Swing or Java. Since how you are claiming it does things, is not even remotely how it actually does do things these days. 5 years ago? Yes. Today? No. It's very different today.

I'm actually the one who should be laughing here. Cause you are proving you are one of those "Java sucks, even though I really don't know anything about it, I'm just repeating tired old arguments that I heard 5 years ago, or basing it on a bad experience I once had with Java" type of people.

Edited 2007-12-07 22:16

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[9]: Unconvinced
by mikeurbandz on Fri 7th Dec 2007 22:18 in reply to "RE[8]: Unconvinced"
mikeurbandz Member since:
2007-10-29

Oh. And since I know you will want a citation for that claim that Swing is now the dominant GUI toolkit, here it is.

a 2005 Evans Data Corporation report found that 47% of companies doing desktop application development were using Swing. That was an increase of just 27% from a year ago, and a surge in popularity that caused it to pass even Microsoft's latest offerings for GUI toolkit design.

Reply Parent Score: 3