Linked by David Adams on Tue 4th Dec 2007 19:39 UTC, submitted by michuk
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y "It may be a brave opinion but I predict that Ubuntu Linux and Windows Vista are going to be the two operating systems that will take over the largest chunk of the desktop OS market during the next couple of years. This comparison is based on my experience with both systems during the last couple of weeks on two different computers."
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RE[12]: I have to disagree.
by archiesteel on Fri 7th Dec 2007 21:15 UTC in reply to "RE[11]: I have to disagree."
archiesteel
Member since:
2005-07-02

To me a Hardcore gamer is someone who doesn't want to play shallow games and does not fear some learning to handle a game...someone who likes complex games which have depth.


That's a pretty good definition - but that would apply to many console gamers. You have some really hardcore Soul Calibur or Tekken players, who know all of the dozens of combos for *each* character (and beat me silly whenever I dare try to play against them).

That isn't what comes to my mind when i think of consoles where even most RPGs are rather shallow and there isn't even one single decent Simulation.


I disagree about games like Final Fantasy or Grandia being shallow, although it's true there aren't that many simulations on consoles (except for sports simulators). Simulations blur the line between entertainment and education, and as such have been shunned by console game publishers, who focus on entertainment only.

Joypads simply are to slow and unprecise for that, which is not a surprise since they never where meant for first person types of games as well.


Well, controllers *have* improved a lot, and FPS have adapted their gameplay for consoles, so they can be quite enjoyable on that medium as well. It's mostly a matter of getting used to the new control method.

If the PC games market was to die (and i do not believe that... here in germany the pc games market is still bigger than the console games market)


I never said the PC market was going to die, but the trend is for it to continue to lose ground to the console market. Last time I checked, console games outsold PC games worldwide by a ration of about 6:1, and the trend didn't show any signs of reversing.

i would simply stop playing, except if the console market would start to make the kind of games i like to play with the type of controls i want, but i don't see any indication of that.


Well, you *can* plug USB mice and keyboards in all of the new consoles (Xbox360, PS3 and Wii), so it's conceivable that you could have alternate mouse+keyboard controls for some games - if the demand makes it worthwhile. We'll see...

Also, i don't quite understand this deep obsession of some alternative Operating System users with consoles... even if you would talk those "Hardcore Gamers" out of Windows and into using consoles... these aren't the people who would have any use for a pc then. They wouldn't switch to Mac or Linux, they simply wouldn't own anything but their Console, which is already enough for their webbrowsing and email needs.


You're kidding, right? Browsing on a console - especially if you don't have a HDTV - is definitely *not* as user-friendly as on a computer. Consoles are meant for gaming, not general purpose-stuff. How about Word Processing? How about spreadsheets, or photo editing, burning CD-ROMs? Why would I want to do any of these on a console? Hardcore gamers do more than just play games, you know.

I'll pretend you didn't just say that, as it completely undermines your whole argument.

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RE[13]: I have to disagree.
by Alleister on Sat 8th Dec 2007 17:52 in reply to "RE[12]: I have to disagree."
Alleister Member since:
2006-05-29

Well, i know some console gamers and they don't own an pc now. Granted, they are rather working class guys, but not a single one of them ever did a single spreadsheet, gives a shit about photo editing, cares about wordprocessors and get their cds copied from their "nerdy friends" (like me). They wouldn't dream of spending money on a expansive Mac and think of Linux as "that nerd toy" (if they ever heard of Linux, which is an exception as well). So even if they *would* get an PC (which they don't show any signs of interest in), they would get an discount Windows PC and likely not tinker with that to get Linux running.

I don't know if they are very representative of the potential console buyer but every console gamer i met was like that and i haven't seen an anything convincing me of the opposite. Webbrowsing might not be as convenient, but why would they care as long as they are able to watch people light up their farts on youtube.

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RE[14]: I have to disagree.
by archiesteel on Sat 8th Dec 2007 19:19 in reply to "RE[13]: I have to disagree."
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

I don't know if they are very representative of the potential console buyer


No, they're not.

but every console gamer i met was like that and i haven't seen an anything convincing me of the opposite.


In other words, you admit your opinion is tainted by sample bias. Fortunately, there are plenty of information available out there on the demographics of console game owners. I think you'll find that the majority of them also own at least one computer, and that very few of them browse the Internet on their console.

No wonder you have such a low opinion of console games if that's your only exposition to them...

A few data items: at the end of 2006, 74% of US houselholds had at least one computer, and 41% had a video game console. You can bet the overlap between the two is sizeable.

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