Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 4th Jan 2008 20:35 UTC, submitted by koki
BeOS & Derivatives According to a news post on the Haiku project website, a new port team is being formed to bring Java technologies to the Haiku platform. The goal of the Haiku Java Team is to port OpenJDK to Haiku, and they would like to see the port included within the structure of Sun's OpenJDK project. The Haiku developers have already been in contact with members of the OpenJDK Porters Group to pursue their objective, and a formal proposal has also been submitted for consideration by the OpenJDK project. The Haiku Java Team is an initiative lead by Bryan Varner, who together with Andrew Bachmann worked on the port of Java to BeOS in the past (demo video).
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I know that ordinary ISO contains a FAT32/FAT16 compliant filesystem. ISO9660 compliant means a FAT32 system and since BeOS uses BeFS - a filesystem that stores a lot of the file info in different places such as attributes - it is not ISO compliant. Well, I thought of a wrapper e.g. in order to use BFS and be compliant with ISO9660. It should somehow be possible since one was able to 1. boot BeOS from DOS and 2. was able to boot a BFS file inside a FAT filesystem.

Reply Parent Score: 1

JonathanBThompson Member since:

ISO does NOT contain a FAT32/FAT16 compliant filesystem anymore than it contains a Mac HFS/HFS+ compliant filesystem: ISO 9660 (perhaps that's what you're doing a shortcut for) actually, to some extent, supports extended attributes, and there are extensions to ISO 9660 (Rockridge extensions) that support longer filenames than the old lowest common denominator mutation, file version numbers, etc. but it isn't enough of extended attribute support for the richness that BFS supports. Sure, you could do the wrapper, but why, when the El Torito boot specification exists for x86 machines, and works well? There's no reason not to use it, and to use some bastardized ISO 9660 extension. Hybrid CD's have been made for longer than BeOS existed: I distinctly remember such titles going through the premastering department I worked in, that were commonly combination of standard PC ISO 9660 titles with Mac OS volume images on the same disc.

Booting BeOS from DOS definitely doesn't at all work the way you would seem to imply: it can most accurately be thought of as using a BIOS boot loader to load a bootsector from a file, and has absolutely nothing to do with being able to read BeOS formatted images and interpret them from within DOS. From there, it was a translation layer of BeOS itself that was essentially using a FAT16/FAT32 abstraction layer below the BFS driver level such that the BFS driver when it requested a block, got back a relative offset block returned from a lower level FAT filesystem driver.

Until Haiku is out of the pre-alpha state where it can't (at this time) build itself due to an incomplete VM subsystem, it's probably wisest to leave it at a state where the common user like yourself won't find it easy to install, but whine when it doesn't do this, that, or the other thing, etc. because if it's too easy to install, those without enough motivation and knowledge and diligence will only whine, as opposed to providing useful bug reports. Whether that theory is most correct entirely depends on the users, but at this point, with the holes that still need to be plugged, if you can't install it as-is, you're honestly not technically competent enough to be of any real value in the development and testing.

Reply Parent Score: 4

jonas.kirilla Member since:

ISO9660 and FAT32 are old and they suck. That's what they have in common. Neither is of much use to Haiku, except ISO9660 for hosting the primary Haiku boot loader.

Haiku is not yet publicly(!) available as CD image for a couple of reasons:

(1: The project does not want to release pre-alpha quality.)

2: Haiku needs a BFS filesystem to boot/run from. ISO9660 is not enough by itself.

3: A bootable CD can not consist of a single BFS data track. I think bootable CDs need at least one ISO9660, or I suppose UDF, physical data track. I could be wrong though.

4: BeOS came on pressed CDs with 3 physical data tracks: one short ISO9660 track for the primary boot code, one BFS track for BeOS/Intel and a third BFS track for BeOS for PowerPC. I'm not aware of a multi-track image format that is not tied to a specific burner application (and platform). Distributing tracks separately is bound to confuse people and a multi-track Haiku image has got to be burnable with most any burner application or its a very bad idea to use that certain format.

5: BeOS install CDs were always "live" (but read-only). Making a stripped down, non-live Haiku installer just to be able to distribute a simple, single-track ISO is -not- an option.

6: Haiku has not yet, AFAIK, been given support for running off UDF (it may have to be extended with BFS-like features) or running off a BFS filesystem-in-a-file on an ISO9660 or UDF filesystem. One of these two solutions are possible. I'm guessing the latter is the most likely. Once there, distributing a Haiku "ISO" should be easy and hopefully the system is ready for alpha release by then.

It -is- possible to make a bootable Haiku CD currently and there is an installer application but there is no decent partitioning tool yet and the seek latencies of most CD devices coupled with multithreaded access to the CD's BFS track makes the actual boot take a very long time. This needs some work before its released.

Edited 2008-01-05 21:35

Reply Parent Score: 2