Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 8th Jan 2008 08:18 UTC, submitted by Kaj de Vos
Syllable, AtheOS After an extensive development period, the Syllable project has released Syllable Desktop 0.6.5 with improvements all over. As always there are bug fixes, most notably in USB and the network stack, leading to large reliability and performance improvements. LibUSB and SANE were ported, so there is now USB access from user space and support for scanners. There are new network and video drivers, including a unique S3 DeltaChrome driver that Arno Klenke wrote from scratch. Two new window decorators debut from John Aspras. CD burning ability is now integrated in the form of SimpleBurn and CDRTools. A new network preferences applet from Andrew Kennan was integrated, and also Arno Klenke's port of OpenBeFS. Many ports were upgraded and the system layout has been heavily reorganised. Files needed for compiling software have been split off in a separate package. This is also the release that harmonises a number of things between Syllable Desktop and Syllable Server. The full change log is here. Installation CDs, the upgrade, and images for emulators are here. Additional software can be found here.
Thread beginning with comment 294956
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[3]: OpenBFS
by Vanders on Tue 8th Jan 2008 20:34 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: OpenBFS"
Vanders
Member since:
2005-07-06

Standard GRUB will not boot a BFS partition. I'm looking at my Ubuntu 7.10 installation right now, and there is no bfs_stage1_5 file. e2fs, FAT, JFS, Reiser and XFS, but no BFS.

So whatever you're doing, you are not using the standard GRUB that comes with Ubuntu.

The version of GRUB that comes with Syllable will also not boot BFS. Hence why I said "GRUB won't boot it".

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: OpenBFS
by MYOB on Tue 8th Jan 2008 21:32 in reply to "RE[3]: OpenBFS"
MYOB Member since:
2005-06-29

GRUB will boot BeOS by chainloading the partitions own stage 1.5 boot block, IIRC. Its definately been able to boot it - somehow or other - for years, as I've done it, frequently.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: OpenBFS
by Vanders on Tue 8th Jan 2008 22:08 in reply to "RE[4]: OpenBFS"
Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

Well yes, obviously. But then we'd have to write a stage 1.5 boot loader for GRUB to chainload.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: OpenBFS
by jonas.kirilla on Tue 8th Jan 2008 22:16 in reply to "RE[3]: OpenBFS"
jonas.kirilla Member since:
2005-07-11

Vanders, I'm sure you know this, so just so no one gets the wrong idea here: GRUB doesn't have to understand B(e)FS to boot BeOS or Haiku. You simply use GRUB's chainload feature, as described in
http://www.osnews.com/files/syllable-install.html

This way GRUB loads and hands off to BeOS/Haiku's loader which is embedded in the partition's own boot record. You can use the command 'makebootable', but the BeOS (and future Haiku) installer should already have done that for you. (This is not BeOS's MBR menu known as 'bootman' - two separate things. Bootman, if you choose to install it, loads the partition boot record code put there by 'makebootable'.)

The only reason for GRUB to have intrinsic knowledge of a certain filesystem is to host GRUBs menu settings and additional components -within- the filesystem of a specific partition, like the one you've got Linux or Syllable on. Without this intrinsic knowledge of a certain filesystem, a boot menu can't fit much more than chainloading in the tiny space of a disk's Master Boot Record. In my opinion chainloading is cleaner than sort of spilling over into a partition, but people seem to enjoy bloat. ;P The only good reason I can see for doing it might be being able to load different operating systems with multiple presets of boot parameter for each.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: OpenBFS
by Vanders on Tue 8th Jan 2008 22:46 in reply to "RE[4]: OpenBFS"
Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

Vanders, I'm sure you know this, so just so no one gets the wrong idea here: GRUB doesn't have to understand B(e)FS to boot BeOS or Haiku. You simply use GRUB's chainload feature


Yes. However the discussion originally started with the question of if you could now install Syllable on a BFS filesystem instead of AFS. My point is this: ignoring the Syllable block cache issues, we would require a GRUB that is capable of booting BFS itself as Syllable Desktop has a multiboot kernel and GRUB is a multiboot loader. Chain loading the Haiku BFS bootloader is no use for Syllable, even if we ported it.

If and when we solve the block cache issues, we can simply use the BFS/SkyFS stage1_5 patches written by Robert for use with SkyOS.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: OpenBFS
by stippi on Thu 10th Jan 2008 23:18 in reply to "RE[3]: OpenBFS"
stippi Member since:
2006-01-19

You don't need BFS support to boot a BFS partition. How else would any PC boot BeOS at all? Even the Windows bootmanager can boot BFS partitions. For that to work, the first block of the partition contains the actual boot code (which then contains support for BFS). That code gets written to the partition if you invoke "makebootable" in BeOS. I think the feature of the bootmanager is called "chain loading". (chainload=1 in the grub config? Just be careful to not make logical partitions "active".)

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: OpenBFS
by Vanders on Fri 11th Jan 2008 10:31 in reply to "RE[4]: OpenBFS"
Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

For that to work, the first block of the partition contains the actual boot code (which then contains support for BFS).


Yes, it contains the boot loader for BeOS. This entire discussion is about booting Syllable from a BFS partition. The BeOS/Haiku boot loader that may or may not be present on the partition (if you formatted the partition from Syllable there is certainly no bootloader installed) is no help here.

A lot of people seem confused about what exactly the boot loader is and how it all works. When I say "GRUB can not boot from a BFS partition" I mean exactly that. GRUB can chainload another bootloader that can do it, of course it can, but that's a totally separate boot loader that you just happen to load with GRUB. GRUB is not booting from the BFS partition at all. It's loading a totally different bootloader that in this particular instance happens to be system specific.

Syllable uses GRUB as its bootloader. For Syllable to be able to boot from a BFS partition, GRUB must be capable of booting from BFS: it must have a bfs_stage1_5 loader that it can embed into the filesystem.

SkyOS uses GRUB as the bootloader and already has the ability to do this. In fact Robert had to modify BFS slightly so that GRUB could embed the stage1_5 file correctly. When and if Syllable can be installed on a BFS partition we will almost certainly use the same GRUB patches that Robert wrote for SkyOS.

Reply Parent Score: 2