Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 14th Jan 2008 14:41 UTC, submitted by superstoned
KDE "I think it's really necessary to respond to some criticism seen on the reactions to the latest OSnews article. I won't go into the article itself, imho it's rather negative, but hey. From an user's perspective, it makes sense to only review 3 or 4 parts of KDE 4 and complain about them, and ignore all the other brilliant pieces of work in there, right? On to the responses, I found this reaction by dagw to be the most typical. Well. That's painful. So, is he right? Did we make the wrong decision? Let's look at it from a broader perspective for a while. Let's see it in the Grand Scheme of Things to Come."
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RE[2]: This Is Ridiculous
by melkor on Tue 15th Jan 2008 12:33 UTC in reply to "RE: This Is Ridiculous"
melkor
Member since:
2006-12-16

*shakes his head*.

Seriously - how *many* Linux people are going to download KDE 4 from the KDE website and compile it manually? Very few I suspect. The vast majority of people will have enough common sense to wait until it reaches the package repositories for their distribution of choice (i.e. experimental for Debian) and they'll install it that way.

So, bitching about the KDE website saying it's stable is idiotic imho, when few people will actually get a hold of KDE 4 that way.

What don't people understand about a stable technology release, that might not have all the bells and whistles?

Let's have an analogy here...think of the US rocket program in the 50s/60s. Let's take the stance that Thom, and others are saying - don't release rockets until the technology is stable enough. Instead of man landing on the moon in 1969, they probably would still not have done so by now, given that approach!

Gee...why do some people seek to deliberately misrepresent what KDE devs have said for a long time? Do you get some devilish fun out of it? Are you bored? Do you have attention span issues?

Get over it...

Dave

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: This Is Ridiculous
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 15th Jan 2008 13:28 in reply to "RE[2]: This Is Ridiculous"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Let's have an analogy here...think of the US rocket program in the 50s/60s. Let's take the stance that Thom, and others are saying - don't release rockets until the technology is stable enough. Instead of man landing on the moon in 1969, they probably would still not have done so by now, given that approach!


Stop twisting my words. I never said KDE 4.0.0 should not have been released. I just said (among a whole boatload of positive things, as Aaron himself already noted) that the amount of bugs, performance issues, and missing basic functionality, make this an unstable, unusable release - even after I adjusted my expectations. This is beta, maybe even alpha quality software. The amount of reported bugs in just the two stories on OSNews are staggering.

They want people to test it, but they do not want people to use it - that is the message coming across here. Normal people should not use it, the developers have warned for that - yet, the KDE website lists as a stable, final, usable release, and promotes it as such.

Additionally, they ask why people care so much about version numbers, we shouldn't do that - if that really is the case, than what is the problem with labeling it as "KDE 4 Developer Release 1"? This would've prevented a whole boatload of valid complaints.

Gee...why do some people seek to deliberately misrepresent what KDE devs have said for a long time? Do you get some devilish fun out of it? Are you bored? Do you have attention span issues?


Melkor, stop trying to make it seem as if all the people here who agree with the above position (and those are many) are out to hurt KDE. This is not the case, we want to help KDE, and your pathetic attempt at black helicoptery here doesn't help in that respect at all.

Edited 2008-01-15 13:29 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: This Is Ridiculous
by michi on Tue 15th Jan 2008 14:50 in reply to "RE[3]: This Is Ridiculous"
michi Member since:
2006-02-04

Stop twisting my words. I never said KDE 4.0.0 should not have been released. I just said (among a whole boatload of positive things, as Aaron himself already noted) that the amount of bugs, performance issues, and missing basic functionality, make this an unstable, unusable release - even after I adjusted my expectations. This is beta, maybe even alpha quality software. The amount of reported bugs in just the two stories on OSNews are staggering.

Sorry, but this is utter nonsense. I am using KDE4 as my main desktop for a couple of weeks and it is neither unstable nor unusable. Neither desktop nor any KDE4 applications crashed for me so far and most of the KDE4 applications are actually better then the KDE3 versions. For me KDE4 is neither alpha nor beta quality. It might not have all features from KDE3, but Gnome doesn't have them either and nobody calls Gnome unstable or unusable or alpha or beta quality software. The main thing people seem to complain about is the taskbar and it really lacks configurability, but most people on e.g. Windows never configure their taskbar anyway. It does the basic things. Can it be improved? Of course. But calling KDE4 alpha or beta quality just because some configuration options are missing for the taskbar is ridicolous. KDE4 is quite usable and quite stable at least for me. If it crashes for you, maybe you did something wrong when compiling it or your distribution screwed something up.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[4]: This Is Ridiculous
by melkor on Tue 15th Jan 2008 23:17 in reply to "RE[3]: This Is Ridiculous"
melkor Member since:
2006-12-16

No Thom - you *knew* that KDE 4.0 was going to be a technology release, and have known for quite some time.

Doing a song and dance post release about something that you already knew is not what I call common sense. I call it making a song and dance to create a scene and garner attention to yourself.

By all accounts the core technologies are stable, and that is *what* really matters.

As to the KDE website, perhaps, in hindsight, it would have been smart of KDE to put a warning on the webpage, and to keep 3.5.x as the default desktop environment (stable by your definition). Perhaps a nice email to KDE would fix this problem?

Dave

Reply Parent Score: 1